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[Music]

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and it hits me oh my gosh this is that

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triangle you know there's explanation

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for everything that occurred in the

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rental champions incident that doesn't

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involve aliens at all it was completely

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silent it comes right over our heads he

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saw a

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classic flying saucer really standing in

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the clearing he turned over to my father

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and held his hand and he looked in his

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hello and welcome to the show i'm martin

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willis your host michael laucou be

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joining us for the news in just a sec

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after the news we have a great interview

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with grant cameron he's been around the

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scene i should say the ufo scene since

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1975.

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so how you doing michael what's up for

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the news this week well this week we

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have a few ufo sightings and some

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science news first though i'd like to

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remind everyone to visit podcastufo.com

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to check out the show notes with links

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to media coverage of all of our news

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stories while you are there be sure to

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take a second to join the forums of

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course you can always find us on our

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active facebook page as well and i'd

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also like to thank carrie lloyd

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whitehouse who composed and provided

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today's music well first up we have a

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florida security camera catching

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mysterious lights over a pool and

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everybody you're going to want to go to

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the show notes and look at this a

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florida condo security guard saw

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something off and so far unexplained in

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one swimming pool security camera feed

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monday night

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the view is partially obscured by

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condensation making identification even

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more difficult but some strange light

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does appear to hover over and perhaps

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even enter the water visit our show

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notes for a link to the local nbc news

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coverage out of naples florida and about

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one minute of the security footage now

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martin did you did you get a chance to

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see this oh yes and uh you know my son

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was visiting last night so we watched it

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together

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and you know he

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he tries to keep a very i would say a

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skeptical mind when he's observing about

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every single ufo video that i've ever

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shown him which is good you know healthy

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and whatever but you know right away he

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says that it's like maybe a sprinkler

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hit hit that thing you know and it's a

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it's a globe over the security camera

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and i said i know it looks to me like

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something electrical and back and forth

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but you know all of a sudden he said

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if that was going on for 30 minutes and

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the woman was watching it why didn't she

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go out and take a look and that is

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exactly what i wondered

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and uh is there any answer to that i

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can't find anything

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no except that um

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maybe her job does not cover fighting

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off an alien invasion oh you know i

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usually don't see that type of thing in

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a job application myself exactly yeah um

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i you know i i have to admit when i

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watched the news coverage

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i was very unimpressed because there's

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definitely water on

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on the the camera housing for the

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security camera they show the security

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camera it's it's in one of the bubbles

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it's one of the small ones

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but when you watch the separate they

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have about a minute i think 54 55

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seconds pulled up when you watch that

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you do get a little bit better

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idea of what went on because they say

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you know oh at first it looks like

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something you know that's that's a disc

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and it doesn't look like a disc it's

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obviously some kind of light haloing

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in this water drop that's that's over

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the lens but after that

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whatever it is does

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it it's a light and it goes down and it

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moves up and down

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through

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some of

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the the the water that's covering that

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lens so so it's

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it starts to look a little different and

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then it does kind of look like it might

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even go in the swimming pool it it was

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it was odd i'm not ready to call it a

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ufo but i definitely same thing i wanted

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let's say it's not a ufo let's assume it

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is

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exactly your job

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what the hell are you doing

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sitting behind a desk in my day security

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guards totally would have chased us off

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yeah yeah she wasn't exactly like a

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brawny security guard she was you know

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just a

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sort of a petite woman he was actually

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kind of kind of cute did you notice that

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uh you're not going to say are you

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just

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yeah you're gonna pass

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yeah okay sometimes my my wife might

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actually listen someday you never know

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okay

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and in other news the new zealand man

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encounters the ufo uh tuesday night a

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man from ruther glenn new zealand claims

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to have seen a quote-unquote car-shaped

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ufo after the encounter he had no cell

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phone reception blurred vision and

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watery eyes he was in fact described as

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bug-eyed and visibly shaken by the event

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there are no pictures or video from the

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man but he is hoping that someone else

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in the area can confirm his sighting um

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what attracted me to this one is i don't

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think i've ever seen

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or heard a description of a car-shaped

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ufo before have you

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no but that would definitely explain

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time travel right there i think it was

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marty mcfly marty mcfly absolutely no uh

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you know it's funny my son i was reading

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him this while he was doing something on

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his computer and

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he just kind of shook his head a few

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times so the the bug eyed thing is uh

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you know visibly shaking but uh bug-eyed

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i haven't heard that description yet

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so maybe it was a volkswagen bug i don't

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know i wasn't sure if he was bug-eyed

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due to shock or if he actually as his

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eyes were what if something had affected

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his eyes they weren't very clear on that

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um maybe if we have any uh new zealand

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listeners if there's some more coverage

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of that they can

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they can let us know what's going on

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yeah we need an entomologist

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maybe yeah

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and there have been multiple ufo

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sightings over california

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the oc weekly has a short and somewhat

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snarky article on an increase in

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unexplained aerial objects spotted in

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the area the article does though include

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two videos of area sightings and a still

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shot of one

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the object shown appears to be round or

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ovular and moving but in all fairness it

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could simply be a tossed ball uh and you

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can find of course all that in the link

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in our show notes did you see either of

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those videos oh yeah yeah i looked

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everything over last night and that

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it it looks like you know the shape and

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size of a beach ball at a distance you

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know that's like the first thing you

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think of and it's a still picture it's

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not a video did you find a video of that

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i mean there there is a video on the

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page that features it but it is just a

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video made up of still pictures and

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close up of the still pictures so

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yeah and at the end of that video it

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shows these little dots off in the

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distance and it says ufos circled in red

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did you see that i did and uh what does

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that mean

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i mean they could be a birds or anything

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stars uh yeah it could have been

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anything that was that that that wasn't

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maybe the most convincing but but

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they're having area sightings and it's

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worth reporting right yeah and the other

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one was lights in the sky and you know

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lights in the sky are lights in the sky

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as they say you know awful hard to

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explain it could be of course the

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infamous chinese lanterns or or all

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kinds of things is very inconclusive

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well that one thing is that still

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picture is not a chinese lantern i

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haven't seen one like that yet no on to

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a better picture i thought

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dorset man photographs a strange light

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and the international business times is

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reporting on a strange series of

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photographs taken by a man in dorset

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which is in southwest england the

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article reports that some readers have

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theorized the strange lights are merely

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the sun reflecting off paragliders even

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though the photographs appear to have

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been taken after dark did you did you

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get a chance to look at those yeah i did

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sure look like electrical anomalies of

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some kind it was it was a little bit

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stranger um

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you know without knowing the camera and

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and the details it's hard to say what it

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was but i think uh sun glinting off

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paragliders was just a little bit

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ridiculous yeah that was silly but you

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know there's some type of spectrum of

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strange colors there together it's it is

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strange and finally a couple space.com

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stories first up space.com is reporting

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that nasa scientists believe that the

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sun's magnetic field is preparing to

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flip with magnetic north and south poles

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changing places this does occur

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approximately every 11 years so it is

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not a terrible shock or surprise but it

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does indicate that solar activity

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will be increasing also reported on at

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space.com is that nasa scientists are

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trying to find a new mission for the

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kepler space telescope

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as listeners may recall a malfunction

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from being able to make the fine

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maneuvers necessary for optimal

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performance therefore it really can't

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hunt planets anymore uh but now that it

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is unable to function as design they are

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hoping that there is some use that they

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can get out of the space telescope with

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the capabilities that it still has i

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have a perfect solution to this why

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don't we just spy on americans with it

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do you want to spy on the security guard

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from the first story

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yeah but also

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that's right but also you know the heck

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with the emails and the internet you

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know that they're getting our records on

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why don't we just spy right through

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bedroom windows don't you think they

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already have something that does that

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they probably do well i was wondering if

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if they couldn't

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maybe use it to look for uh

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near-earth objects uh it's maybe not

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fine enough anymore for those extreme

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long distance photographs it was taking

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but maybe you know maybe it'll help us

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not eat a giant space rock you know

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there you go getting all logical again

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jeez i don't want to get hit with a

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giant space rock all right that's

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that's just my personal thing that's

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every day i wake up and go man i hope we

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didn't get hit by

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armageddon-sized space rock that'll suck

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so that's it for the news right michael

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that is it for this week all right so

276
00:09:54,870 --> 00:09:52,720
hang in there where there's a clip by

277
00:09:56,470 --> 00:09:54,880
carrie lloyd whitehouse and grant

278
00:10:08,560 --> 00:09:56,480
cameron's coming up all right great talk

279
00:10:50,550 --> 00:10:19,920
[Music]

280
00:11:27,030 --> 00:10:52,510
is

281
00:11:31,430 --> 00:11:29,269
hi grant how are you good martin thanks

282
00:11:32,550 --> 00:11:31,440
for showing some interest and having me

283
00:11:35,350 --> 00:11:32,560
on your show

284
00:11:37,030 --> 00:11:35,360
absolutely uh you're very welcome and

285
00:11:39,350 --> 00:11:37,040
glad to have you on

286
00:11:40,870 --> 00:11:39,360
now i read your book a little while ago

287
00:11:45,509 --> 00:11:40,880
oh i don't know three or four months ago

288
00:11:48,870 --> 00:11:45,519
ufos area 51 and government informants

289
00:11:51,590 --> 00:11:48,880
and that was co-authored by t scott

290
00:11:53,990 --> 00:11:51,600
crane is that right yes it looks like it

291
00:11:55,829 --> 00:11:54,000
took a long time to compile that book

292
00:11:57,190 --> 00:11:55,839
can you talk about that well it was

293
00:11:58,630 --> 00:11:57,200
actually the second time it's been out

294
00:12:01,509 --> 00:11:58,640
it was the actually the first book that

295
00:12:04,069 --> 00:12:01,519
was ever published by mufon back in 1991

296
00:12:05,350 --> 00:12:04,079
at that time was called ufos mj-12 in

297
00:12:08,550 --> 00:12:05,360
the government

298
00:12:09,750 --> 00:12:08,560
and uh it was sort of as you've read the

299
00:12:12,470 --> 00:12:09,760
book you know it was sort of the

300
00:12:15,190 --> 00:12:12,480
majority of the book at that point was

301
00:12:17,030 --> 00:12:15,200
based on uh us chasing around a guy by

302
00:12:18,389 --> 00:12:17,040
the name of dr eric walker who was the

303
00:12:19,430 --> 00:12:18,399
former president of penn state

304
00:12:22,389 --> 00:12:19,440
university

305
00:12:24,230 --> 00:12:22,399
and t scott crane uh got a journalism

306
00:12:26,470 --> 00:12:24,240
degree from penn state was right there

307
00:12:29,990 --> 00:12:26,480
so he was the co-author

308
00:12:32,069 --> 00:12:30,000
and we put the book out and then um

309
00:12:34,790 --> 00:12:32,079
20 years later richard dolan used it in

310
00:12:35,750 --> 00:12:34,800
ufo's national security part 2

311
00:12:37,030 --> 00:12:35,760
and

312
00:12:38,470 --> 00:12:37,040
used some of the material from the

313
00:12:41,190 --> 00:12:38,480
walker and some of the canadian stuff

314
00:12:43,430 --> 00:12:41,200
that i had in there and then sort of

315
00:12:45,430 --> 00:12:43,440
came up with the idea that he wanted to

316
00:12:47,590 --> 00:12:45,440
publish it so i said yeah okay so then

317
00:12:49,750 --> 00:12:47,600
we updated the book and we

318
00:12:51,190 --> 00:12:49,760
um or i did most of the updating the

319
00:12:53,750 --> 00:12:51,200
original was written by

320
00:12:55,110 --> 00:12:53,760
t scott crane based on my research but i

321
00:12:57,190 --> 00:12:55,120
did most of the updating because scott

322
00:12:59,990 --> 00:12:57,200
hadn't really been involved in ufos for

323
00:13:03,670 --> 00:13:00,000
20 years so i updated it and we changed

324
00:13:05,190 --> 00:13:03,680
the mj-12 to area 51 not because mj-12

325
00:13:07,190 --> 00:13:05,200
wasn't important in fact i've just put

326
00:13:09,509 --> 00:13:07,200
out an article that it

327
00:13:11,590 --> 00:13:09,519
presents new evidence on nj12

328
00:13:12,790 --> 00:13:11,600
but the fact that uh majority of people

329
00:13:14,389 --> 00:13:12,800
if you talk to people on the street they

330
00:13:16,389 --> 00:13:14,399
look at you like you're well they look

331
00:13:18,069 --> 00:13:16,399
at you like you're crazy already but uh

332
00:13:20,069 --> 00:13:18,079
when you talk about mj-12 they have no

333
00:13:22,949 --> 00:13:20,079
idea what you're talking about so uh

334
00:13:25,990 --> 00:13:22,959
area 51 i knew by google searching it

335
00:13:28,150 --> 00:13:26,000
and working on it that it was

336
00:13:30,310 --> 00:13:28,160
it is one of the most popular most

337
00:13:32,389 --> 00:13:30,320
well-known places in the in the world

338
00:13:34,550 --> 00:13:32,399
and the biggest article i ever wrote

339
00:13:36,629 --> 00:13:34,560
that it was got the most hits on my

340
00:13:38,629 --> 00:13:36,639
website was the area 51 article so

341
00:13:40,949 --> 00:13:38,639
that's why we changed the title to ufos

342
00:13:43,110 --> 00:13:40,959
area 51 and government informant so we

343
00:13:45,509 --> 00:13:43,120
go into the uh sort of one of the

344
00:13:47,750 --> 00:13:45,519
sub-premises of the book was a theory

345
00:13:50,230 --> 00:13:47,760
that i've got that the government has

346
00:13:52,870 --> 00:13:50,240
been indirectly leaking a lot of the ufo

347
00:13:55,269 --> 00:13:52,880
material to the ufo community

348
00:13:57,509 --> 00:13:55,279
uh surrounded by disinformation so

349
00:13:59,509 --> 00:13:57,519
they're able to allow the

350
00:14:01,350 --> 00:13:59,519
sort of the concepts to come out but

351
00:14:03,590 --> 00:14:01,360
they're able to maintain the classified

352
00:14:05,430 --> 00:14:03,600
nature of the uh the program that

353
00:14:06,870 --> 00:14:05,440
they're running and so that's why we we

354
00:14:08,629 --> 00:14:06,880
talked about government informants all

355
00:14:10,870 --> 00:14:08,639
these sort of people that sort of have

356
00:14:12,790 --> 00:14:10,880
come forward and sort of uh dropped all

357
00:14:15,430 --> 00:14:12,800
sorts of hints as to what's going on

358
00:14:17,430 --> 00:14:15,440
right but going back to walker what i do

359
00:14:19,990 --> 00:14:17,440
for in the real world is a lot i do a

360
00:14:22,389 --> 00:14:20,000
lot of historical research on documents

361
00:14:24,790 --> 00:14:22,399
and uh i i got to tell you there's

362
00:14:27,430 --> 00:14:24,800
absolutely no doubt in my mind that that

363
00:14:29,990 --> 00:14:27,440
initial link is by the same hand that

364
00:14:32,310 --> 00:14:30,000
made the signatures walker and i do like

365
00:14:34,550 --> 00:14:32,320
i say a good part of what i do is a lot

366
00:14:36,550 --> 00:14:34,560
of research on signatures

367
00:14:38,310 --> 00:14:36,560
that's right on target this is actually

368
00:14:39,990 --> 00:14:38,320
kind of interesting because one of the

369
00:14:41,430 --> 00:14:40,000
articles i'm writing another book now

370
00:14:42,710 --> 00:14:41,440
and i'm dealing with this idea of the

371
00:14:44,949 --> 00:14:42,720
live alien

372
00:14:46,389 --> 00:14:44,959
and that was sort of something that i

373
00:14:48,230 --> 00:14:46,399
think he was indirectly trying to tell

374
00:14:50,389 --> 00:14:48,240
us it really didn't mean that there was

375
00:14:51,670 --> 00:14:50,399
that there was all for real you'll see

376
00:14:53,990 --> 00:14:51,680
in one of the interviews that we do with

377
00:14:55,990 --> 00:14:54,000
him where he's talking about the fact um

378
00:14:58,389 --> 00:14:56,000
he's being asked about the the bodies

379
00:14:59,189 --> 00:14:58,399
the roswell bodies and he said he said

380
00:15:00,550 --> 00:14:59,199
well

381
00:15:02,069 --> 00:15:00,560
how do you know they didn't get up and

382
00:15:03,189 --> 00:15:02,079
walk away

383
00:15:04,870 --> 00:15:03,199
everything everything you're doing

384
00:15:06,790 --> 00:15:04,880
you're guessing and most of what you're

385
00:15:09,030 --> 00:15:06,800
guessing is wrong and then he puts out

386
00:15:11,269 --> 00:15:09,040
this alien letter that sort of indicates

387
00:15:13,990 --> 00:15:11,279
that um there's these four aliens and

388
00:15:15,910 --> 00:15:14,000
they're integrated into american society

389
00:15:17,590 --> 00:15:15,920
but i don't think he was really saying

390
00:15:19,590 --> 00:15:17,600
you know that this was actually for real

391
00:15:20,470 --> 00:15:19,600
he was giving us the idea

392
00:15:25,189 --> 00:15:20,480
that

393
00:15:27,430 --> 00:15:25,199
of them are dead and in 1991 when we

394
00:15:29,590 --> 00:15:27,440
were 1990 1991 we were doing these

395
00:15:32,310 --> 00:15:29,600
interviews the idea of the the live

396
00:15:35,189 --> 00:15:32,320
alien wasn't all that prominent but now

397
00:15:37,829 --> 00:15:35,199
with the work of carrie and schmidt and

398
00:15:40,470 --> 00:15:37,839
uh even randall we now

399
00:15:41,430 --> 00:15:40,480
are pretty certain that the roswell

400
00:15:44,389 --> 00:15:41,440
crash

401
00:15:45,910 --> 00:15:44,399
involved a live alien in fact there's uh

402
00:15:47,750 --> 00:15:45,920
a document i didn't put in the book but

403
00:15:50,470 --> 00:15:47,760
we act there's actually a document back

404
00:15:53,030 --> 00:15:50,480
in 1952 that was a letter that was

405
00:15:55,350 --> 00:15:53,040
written to frank scully who was the guy

406
00:15:57,749 --> 00:15:55,360
who wrote the first crash saucer book

407
00:16:00,150 --> 00:15:57,759
the one on the aztec crash and frank

408
00:16:02,550 --> 00:16:00,160
scully gets a letter from a woman in new

409
00:16:04,310 --> 00:16:02,560
york who basically talks about the fact

410
00:16:06,389 --> 00:16:04,320
that her daughter they run into this guy

411
00:16:07,189 --> 00:16:06,399
they're fixing a tire and i think it's

412
00:16:09,430 --> 00:16:07,199
in

413
00:16:11,189 --> 00:16:09,440
nevada and this guy

414
00:16:13,430 --> 00:16:11,199
tells her daughter starts dating her

415
00:16:14,870 --> 00:16:13,440
daughter and starts telling her daughter

416
00:16:16,310 --> 00:16:14,880
that he's involved in this program and

417
00:16:19,829 --> 00:16:16,320
there's a live alien and they have it in

418
00:16:21,590 --> 00:16:19,839
new mexico this is 1952. so

419
00:16:23,350 --> 00:16:21,600
i always try to remind people that you

420
00:16:25,350 --> 00:16:23,360
know we have the story of the live alien

421
00:16:26,870 --> 00:16:25,360
and all that sort of stuff now but

422
00:16:28,550 --> 00:16:26,880
i've been around this field long enough

423
00:16:30,710 --> 00:16:28,560
to know that what we talk about now

424
00:16:33,990 --> 00:16:30,720
wasn't talked about then in fact uh the

425
00:16:36,550 --> 00:16:34,000
first time that crash saucers and actual

426
00:16:39,269 --> 00:16:36,560
dead aliens and autopsies which talked

427
00:16:40,550 --> 00:16:39,279
about was 1978. before that there was

428
00:16:42,230 --> 00:16:40,560
really no discussion whatsoever and i

429
00:16:44,150 --> 00:16:42,240
remember going to the it was done at the

430
00:16:46,230 --> 00:16:44,160
mufon conference in dayton ohio and i

431
00:16:48,230 --> 00:16:46,240
remember being there and i had a meeting

432
00:16:49,430 --> 00:16:48,240
with len stringfield related to

433
00:16:50,949 --> 00:16:49,440
something else not

434
00:16:52,790 --> 00:16:50,959
his speech and that's where he was

435
00:16:53,990 --> 00:16:52,800
giving this speech about the live aliens

436
00:16:55,670 --> 00:16:54,000
and i went there and they had moved into

437
00:16:57,829 --> 00:16:55,680
another hotel and there was all the

438
00:16:58,790 --> 00:16:57,839
death threats and it was like it was

439
00:17:00,629 --> 00:16:58,800
just

440
00:17:02,870 --> 00:17:00,639
real tension in the in the room about

441
00:17:05,189 --> 00:17:02,880
this guy that was going to talk about

442
00:17:08,069 --> 00:17:05,199
alien autopsies and stuff like that so

443
00:17:10,069 --> 00:17:08,079
to have this live alien letter in 1952 i

444
00:17:12,069 --> 00:17:10,079
think it's fairly significant in that we

445
00:17:13,990 --> 00:17:12,079
now have a lot of people who are talking

446
00:17:15,829 --> 00:17:14,000
about the fact that there was a live

447
00:17:18,870 --> 00:17:15,839
alien in 19 in

448
00:17:20,630 --> 00:17:18,880
1947 but the discussion of that didn't

449
00:17:22,230 --> 00:17:20,640
come until about 10 years ago when

450
00:17:24,870 --> 00:17:22,240
people started to these witnesses

451
00:17:26,949 --> 00:17:24,880
started to come forward yeah so do you

452
00:17:29,110 --> 00:17:26,959
think that walker was trying to push you

453
00:17:30,310 --> 00:17:29,120
a bunch of disinformation by some of the

454
00:17:32,310 --> 00:17:30,320
things he was

455
00:17:34,950 --> 00:17:32,320
no he's giving you information but that

456
00:17:37,510 --> 00:17:34,960
the way i say they do it is is you can't

457
00:17:39,350 --> 00:17:37,520
um let me give an example uh you know

458
00:17:40,630 --> 00:17:39,360
the story of chase brandon chase brandon

459
00:17:42,230 --> 00:17:40,640
the cia

460
00:17:45,270 --> 00:17:42,240
okay so chase brandon comes out and he's

461
00:17:46,870 --> 00:17:45,280
doing this fictional book on roswell

462
00:17:47,990 --> 00:17:46,880
and he when you if you hear the

463
00:17:49,909 --> 00:17:48,000
interviews that he does he does about

464
00:17:51,270 --> 00:17:49,919
six interviews on the book and he says

465
00:17:53,270 --> 00:17:51,280
if you want

466
00:17:54,950 --> 00:17:53,280
a good read read the book if you really

467
00:17:57,350 --> 00:17:54,960
want to learn something read between the

468
00:18:00,549 --> 00:17:57,360
lines and that's the way i say they do

469
00:18:02,549 --> 00:18:00,559
it is that you get a situation where

470
00:18:04,470 --> 00:18:02,559
if you're a cia guy and you saved

471
00:18:06,549 --> 00:18:04,480
america from imminent disaster from

472
00:18:07,990 --> 00:18:06,559
russian bombs or whatever

473
00:18:09,270 --> 00:18:08,000
and you decide that you want your

474
00:18:11,110 --> 00:18:09,280
children and grandchildren to know the

475
00:18:13,590 --> 00:18:11,120
story of what you did you go to the cia

476
00:18:14,710 --> 00:18:13,600
and they say yeah martin you can write

477
00:18:16,390 --> 00:18:14,720
up your story but here's what you got to

478
00:18:18,390 --> 00:18:16,400
do this is what they told chase brannon

479
00:18:20,150 --> 00:18:18,400
you got to change the names you got to

480
00:18:22,390 --> 00:18:20,160
chain tip all the classified material it

481
00:18:24,470 --> 00:18:22,400
has to be reviewed by the cia and you

482
00:18:26,070 --> 00:18:24,480
have to fictionalize the story so that's

483
00:18:28,070 --> 00:18:26,080
the way they get this material out is

484
00:18:30,070 --> 00:18:28,080
they do exactly what a cia agent does

485
00:18:32,070 --> 00:18:30,080
when he tells his story is they

486
00:18:34,390 --> 00:18:32,080
fictionalize it so when chase brandon

487
00:18:36,070 --> 00:18:34,400
comes out and chase brandon says i mean

488
00:18:37,909 --> 00:18:36,080
roswell's for real

489
00:18:42,070 --> 00:18:37,919
i mean basically here you have a guy

490
00:18:44,150 --> 00:18:42,080
who's who's a very high level cia guy

491
00:18:45,110 --> 00:18:44,160
and nobody really picks up on it the new

492
00:18:46,950 --> 00:18:45,120
york times doesn't pick up but

493
00:18:49,909 --> 00:18:46,960
washington post doesn't pick up and sort

494
00:18:52,390 --> 00:18:49,919
of the idea gets out that that it's that

495
00:18:53,990 --> 00:18:52,400
something's going on

496
00:18:55,350 --> 00:18:54,000
but the cover-up is maintained and i

497
00:18:57,350 --> 00:18:55,360
think that's basically what they're

498
00:18:59,110 --> 00:18:57,360
doing so when walker was doing this he

499
00:19:00,549 --> 00:18:59,120
knew the principle he knew the principle

500
00:19:02,630 --> 00:19:00,559
that you don't give away anything

501
00:19:04,789 --> 00:19:02,640
classified so when chase brandon is

502
00:19:07,270 --> 00:19:04,799
telling the story he's basically asked

503
00:19:09,669 --> 00:19:07,280
well how do you know and i say he makes

504
00:19:11,510 --> 00:19:09,679
up the story there's no such box he says

505
00:19:14,710 --> 00:19:11,520
i'm at langley headquarters i'm in the

506
00:19:16,710 --> 00:19:14,720
collection uh area where all the the

507
00:19:18,789 --> 00:19:16,720
archives boxes are i'm sitting there

508
00:19:20,230 --> 00:19:18,799
waiting for a tv crew to come in

509
00:19:22,630 --> 00:19:20,240
and i've got nothing to do so i started

510
00:19:24,710 --> 00:19:22,640
looking around and i see this box with

511
00:19:26,549 --> 00:19:24,720
roswell on the side of it which i say

512
00:19:28,310 --> 00:19:26,559
doesn't exist because you can't you

513
00:19:29,750 --> 00:19:28,320
can't talk about classified material you

514
00:19:31,350 --> 00:19:29,760
can fictionalize the whole thing so you

515
00:19:33,350 --> 00:19:31,360
fictionalize this idea about a box the

516
00:19:36,950 --> 00:19:33,360
same as 15 years ago when it was the

517
00:19:39,270 --> 00:19:36,960
50th anniversary of of roswell you had

518
00:19:40,549 --> 00:19:39,280
corso come forward and corso tells the

519
00:19:42,470 --> 00:19:40,559
story about well he was looking in the

520
00:19:44,230 --> 00:19:42,480
filing cabinet and here they had left

521
00:19:46,230 --> 00:19:44,240
all this this crash material from

522
00:19:47,750 --> 00:19:46,240
roswell in some filing cabinet and he

523
00:19:49,110 --> 00:19:47,760
happened to find it and so you

524
00:19:51,110 --> 00:19:49,120
fictionalize the story so he talks about

525
00:19:52,870 --> 00:19:51,120
the box and and when he's asked in these

526
00:19:55,590 --> 00:19:52,880
six interviews he said what was in the

527
00:19:58,150 --> 00:19:55,600
box convinced me absolutely for sure

528
00:20:00,310 --> 00:19:58,160
that roswell was extraterrestrial and

529
00:20:02,230 --> 00:20:00,320
there were cadavers so he says that very

530
00:20:03,750 --> 00:20:02,240
categorically then he's asked well what

531
00:20:06,070 --> 00:20:03,760
was in the box he says you can do

532
00:20:08,070 --> 00:20:06,080
whatever you want i can not tell you

533
00:20:10,070 --> 00:20:08,080
what was in the box i cannot i can just

534
00:20:11,750 --> 00:20:10,080
say that it confirmed that roswell was

535
00:20:13,510 --> 00:20:11,760
real and there were cadavers so the

536
00:20:15,350 --> 00:20:13,520
whole point is that he can talk about

537
00:20:16,950 --> 00:20:15,360
this fictionalized box he can talk about

538
00:20:18,870 --> 00:20:16,960
the fact that there is evidence but if

539
00:20:21,909 --> 00:20:18,880
he says there's a photograph that shows

540
00:20:23,110 --> 00:20:21,919
an alien and it was taken in 1947 and

541
00:20:24,870 --> 00:20:23,120
was taken by certain people that's

542
00:20:26,390 --> 00:20:24,880
classified material you can't talk about

543
00:20:28,310 --> 00:20:26,400
that you can't talk about a certain

544
00:20:29,909 --> 00:20:28,320
document you saw so you sort of talk

545
00:20:31,510 --> 00:20:29,919
about the thing without getting to the

546
00:20:33,029 --> 00:20:31,520
classified material and let me give you

547
00:20:35,470 --> 00:20:33,039
another example and we talk about this

548
00:20:38,070 --> 00:20:35,480
in the book there's in

549
00:20:39,430 --> 00:20:38,080
1972-73 there's two

550
00:20:41,990 --> 00:20:39,440
film producers by the name of robert

551
00:20:43,990 --> 00:20:42,000
emeneger and alan sandler are contacted

552
00:20:45,669 --> 00:20:44,000
by the pentagon and they're told that

553
00:20:47,830 --> 00:20:45,679
the regular pentagon company that

554
00:20:48,789 --> 00:20:47,840
they're supposed to hire is in trouble

555
00:20:50,470 --> 00:20:48,799
because they're doing a thing on the

556
00:20:52,549 --> 00:20:50,480
pentagon papers and they messed it up

557
00:20:53,909 --> 00:20:52,559
some documentary so these guys have been

558
00:20:56,390 --> 00:20:53,919
called in and they want them to do some

559
00:20:58,710 --> 00:20:56,400
documentaries on the u.s military

560
00:21:00,230 --> 00:20:58,720
and to make the u.s military look better

561
00:21:01,750 --> 00:21:00,240
and they're going to do three 3-d

562
00:21:04,230 --> 00:21:01,760
holography and they're going to do

563
00:21:06,149 --> 00:21:04,240
working with dolphins and all sorts of

564
00:21:07,750 --> 00:21:06,159
bizarre things that the military is

565
00:21:09,190 --> 00:21:07,760
working on and there's about eight

566
00:21:10,950 --> 00:21:09,200
different programs so they get taken

567
00:21:12,470 --> 00:21:10,960
around and they're they're given these

568
00:21:15,110 --> 00:21:12,480
things your work on this program that

569
00:21:16,630 --> 00:21:15,120
program and then paul shardle there at

570
00:21:18,710 --> 00:21:16,640
norton air force base in a clean room

571
00:21:21,750 --> 00:21:18,720
where the cia does their filming they're

572
00:21:23,270 --> 00:21:21,760
in this clean room and uh paul charles

573
00:21:25,510 --> 00:21:23,280
is a security manager in paul's system

574
00:21:27,510 --> 00:21:25,520
what would you what would you uh

575
00:21:28,830 --> 00:21:27,520
say if i told you that we had

576
00:21:30,870 --> 00:21:28,840
uh filmed

577
00:21:32,870 --> 00:21:30,880
a craft

578
00:21:34,710 --> 00:21:32,880
landing at holloman air force base from

579
00:21:36,710 --> 00:21:34,720
three different angles the one from

580
00:21:38,470 --> 00:21:36,720
helicopter two from the ground six

581
00:21:40,390 --> 00:21:38,480
o'clock in the morning and that the

582
00:21:42,470 --> 00:21:40,400
aliens got out and meeted

583
00:21:43,909 --> 00:21:42,480
officials and whatever and we'd like you

584
00:21:46,070 --> 00:21:43,919
to do this documentary and we'd like you

585
00:21:47,510 --> 00:21:46,080
to talk about this film so basically

586
00:21:48,870 --> 00:21:47,520
they start off on this program and

587
00:21:50,070 --> 00:21:48,880
they're they're basically allowed to go

588
00:21:52,470 --> 00:21:50,080
into the pentagon they don't have to

589
00:21:53,830 --> 00:21:52,480
sign in they're put in contact with

590
00:21:56,470 --> 00:21:53,840
anybody they want and they put this

591
00:21:58,310 --> 00:21:56,480
whole documentary out so at the end when

592
00:21:59,669 --> 00:21:58,320
they have this they have this film and

593
00:22:02,390 --> 00:21:59,679
at the very end

594
00:22:03,909 --> 00:22:02,400
um the pentagon comes bill coleman who's

595
00:22:04,950 --> 00:22:03,919
working the pentagon says to them he

596
00:22:06,230 --> 00:22:04,960
said well

597
00:22:08,710 --> 00:22:06,240
you have to send the film back you can't

598
00:22:10,070 --> 00:22:08,720
use the film because it's watergate

599
00:22:11,909 --> 00:22:10,080
we've got problems it's not the

600
00:22:13,110 --> 00:22:11,919
political right time to do it so they

601
00:22:14,789 --> 00:22:13,120
pull the film and they say you got to

602
00:22:16,230 --> 00:22:14,799
bring the film back so they the film is

603
00:22:18,230 --> 00:22:16,240
sent back

604
00:22:19,750 --> 00:22:18,240
to the pentagon some guy drives it into

605
00:22:21,110 --> 00:22:19,760
small datsun across the country takes it

606
00:22:23,029 --> 00:22:21,120
back to the pentagon

607
00:22:24,950 --> 00:22:23,039
but when the film is released there's

608
00:22:27,270 --> 00:22:24,960
eight seconds of the film and this sort

609
00:22:28,870 --> 00:22:27,280
of becomes a rumor and i know bob very

610
00:22:29,909 --> 00:22:28,880
well so i'm talking to bob and i said

611
00:22:31,350 --> 00:22:29,919
bob

612
00:22:32,789 --> 00:22:31,360
there's eight seconds of the film in

613
00:22:34,870 --> 00:22:32,799
there there there's eight seconds of the

614
00:22:37,029 --> 00:22:34,880
hallmark air force base film used in the

615
00:22:39,909 --> 00:22:37,039
film and he sort of hesitates and he

616
00:22:41,830 --> 00:22:39,919
goes yeah yeah well he said but but it's

617
00:22:43,350 --> 00:22:41,840
just background and i said well why

618
00:22:45,029 --> 00:22:43,360
would they let you use it and he said

619
00:22:46,310 --> 00:22:45,039
well because it it

620
00:22:49,110 --> 00:22:46,320
it's just background there's nothing

621
00:22:51,190 --> 00:22:49,120
classified and that's the same thing

622
00:22:52,470 --> 00:22:51,200
what it shows if you look at the the

623
00:22:53,909 --> 00:22:52,480
holman thing what did they're forced to

624
00:22:55,510 --> 00:22:53,919
do is they used to

625
00:22:57,990 --> 00:22:55,520
forced to use storyboard and they're

626
00:23:00,310 --> 00:22:58,000
forced to sort of do you know

627
00:23:01,669 --> 00:23:00,320
uh drawings and stuff like that to tell

628
00:23:02,950 --> 00:23:01,679
the story that this might have happened

629
00:23:05,590 --> 00:23:02,960
in the past or it might happen in the

630
00:23:06,789 --> 00:23:05,600
future and they're telling the story

631
00:23:07,990 --> 00:23:06,799
about the landing at holloman air force

632
00:23:09,590 --> 00:23:08,000
base and all of a sudden they've got

633
00:23:11,350 --> 00:23:09,600
this eight seconds where you see this

634
00:23:13,590 --> 00:23:11,360
object coming over the hill and it's a

635
00:23:14,870 --> 00:23:13,600
it's sort of a glowing white object

636
00:23:17,510 --> 00:23:14,880
during the day it's coming over the

637
00:23:19,510 --> 00:23:17,520
holloman the uh hills and you can very

638
00:23:20,630 --> 00:23:19,520
clearly see that this has been cut into

639
00:23:22,230 --> 00:23:20,640
the film

640
00:23:23,750 --> 00:23:22,240
and so i'm pressing him on this and i

641
00:23:25,350 --> 00:23:23,760
said well what do you mean background

642
00:23:27,590 --> 00:23:25,360
and he said well it didn't show the

643
00:23:29,190 --> 00:23:27,600
craft and it didn't show the aliens and

644
00:23:30,789 --> 00:23:29,200
that's this whole thing about classified

645
00:23:32,630 --> 00:23:30,799
material the same thing walker was doing

646
00:23:33,669 --> 00:23:32,640
the same thing that that chase brandon

647
00:23:36,310 --> 00:23:33,679
was doing

648
00:23:39,270 --> 00:23:36,320
was you can show off a light coming over

649
00:23:41,430 --> 00:23:39,280
a hill and say you know this is the

650
00:23:42,950 --> 00:23:41,440
craft and and sort of indirectly or not

651
00:23:45,510 --> 00:23:42,960
even say it's the craft but show the

652
00:23:47,510 --> 00:23:45,520
craft but you can't show the alien up

653
00:23:49,510 --> 00:23:47,520
close because that's classified or show

654
00:23:51,350 --> 00:23:49,520
the actual saucer sitting on the ground

655
00:23:52,950 --> 00:23:51,360
that's classified material but you can

656
00:23:54,310 --> 00:23:52,960
show this sort of nebulous thing which

657
00:23:55,830 --> 00:23:54,320
they call background it really doesn't

658
00:23:57,909 --> 00:23:55,840
tell you anything but they actually have

659
00:23:59,270 --> 00:23:57,919
part of the actual film that was taken

660
00:24:01,270 --> 00:23:59,280
at home air force base when this thing

661
00:24:03,750 --> 00:24:01,280
landed there so that's this whole idea

662
00:24:05,110 --> 00:24:03,760
that i i came up with and i

663
00:24:06,950 --> 00:24:05,120
produced a number of examples in the

664
00:24:08,230 --> 00:24:06,960
book to show how they do this and then

665
00:24:09,990 --> 00:24:08,240
what they want you to know is they want

666
00:24:11,590 --> 00:24:10,000
you to know there was a crash in roswell

667
00:24:14,070 --> 00:24:11,600
new mexico they want you to know there

668
00:24:15,990 --> 00:24:14,080
was a live alien they want you to know

669
00:24:17,190 --> 00:24:16,000
that they've been working on this whole

670
00:24:18,950 --> 00:24:17,200
thing they want you to know that there's

671
00:24:20,630 --> 00:24:18,960
an mj-12 there's a group controlling

672
00:24:21,909 --> 00:24:20,640
this whole thing they want you to know

673
00:24:24,470 --> 00:24:21,919
the basic

674
00:24:26,470 --> 00:24:24,480
sort of core story but when it comes to

675
00:24:27,990 --> 00:24:26,480
actually spilling the milk that they

676
00:24:29,669 --> 00:24:28,000
don't want to do because once the

677
00:24:31,350 --> 00:24:29,679
story's out and somebody stands up and

678
00:24:33,110 --> 00:24:31,360
says this is for real then you can't

679
00:24:35,190 --> 00:24:33,120
take the story back and you sort of lose

680
00:24:36,310 --> 00:24:35,200
control of the story so they they

681
00:24:38,310 --> 00:24:36,320
they're working on the classified

682
00:24:39,990 --> 00:24:38,320
aspects which is building weapons

683
00:24:41,269 --> 00:24:40,000
building the mind control stuff all that

684
00:24:43,830 --> 00:24:41,279
kind of stuff that they get from the

685
00:24:45,430 --> 00:24:43,840
technology the actual confirmation that

686
00:24:47,669 --> 00:24:45,440
this is for real they they withhold

687
00:24:49,510 --> 00:24:47,679
that's classified but they want you to

688
00:24:50,870 --> 00:24:49,520
know the the core story of what's going

689
00:24:53,669 --> 00:24:50,880
on and that's sort of the premise of the

690
00:24:54,870 --> 00:24:53,679
book that i set out to to prove that

691
00:24:57,269 --> 00:24:54,880
that this is the kind of stuff that's

692
00:24:59,430 --> 00:24:57,279
going on or the area 51 the prime story

693
00:25:01,190 --> 00:24:59,440
they want you to know that area 51 had a

694
00:25:03,830 --> 00:25:01,200
live alien they want you to know they

695
00:25:04,630 --> 00:25:03,840
were back engineering stuff at area 51

696
00:25:06,710 --> 00:25:04,640
and

697
00:25:08,470 --> 00:25:06,720
they use a very specific way of bringing

698
00:25:10,230 --> 00:25:08,480
that story out which sort of backfires

699
00:25:12,549 --> 00:25:10,240
but i i go through the whole story and

700
00:25:14,870 --> 00:25:12,559
describe how i know that this was

701
00:25:17,669 --> 00:25:14,880
purposely done at area 51 they purposely

702
00:25:20,070 --> 00:25:17,679
put this story out now you and i had an

703
00:25:22,070 --> 00:25:20,080
email exchange way back before i started

704
00:25:23,430 --> 00:25:22,080
reading the book and i had just told you

705
00:25:25,350 --> 00:25:23,440
that i had just got the book in the mail

706
00:25:27,430 --> 00:25:25,360
and all that and you told me at that

707
00:25:29,430 --> 00:25:27,440
time that there was had i heard about

708
00:25:31,029 --> 00:25:29,440
the controversy about your book does

709
00:25:33,990 --> 00:25:31,039
that have to do with the

710
00:25:36,549 --> 00:25:34,000
mj 12 documents as that always seems to

711
00:25:38,870 --> 00:25:36,559
be in the middle of controversy um no

712
00:25:41,909 --> 00:25:38,880
that's about to happen there i put the i

713
00:25:43,110 --> 00:25:41,919
put the area 50 the majestic 12 thing

714
00:25:44,230 --> 00:25:43,120
out

715
00:25:46,630 --> 00:25:44,240
in the book

716
00:25:48,870 --> 00:25:46,640
twice we put out 1991 and nobody picked

717
00:25:51,029 --> 00:25:48,880
up on it for example we had a woman who

718
00:25:53,830 --> 00:25:51,039
claimed to have seen the mj-12 document

719
00:25:55,350 --> 00:25:53,840
in okinawa and she was they were on the

720
00:25:56,630 --> 00:25:55,360
declassification team they were in a

721
00:25:58,390 --> 00:25:56,640
general's office they found this

722
00:26:00,310 --> 00:25:58,400
document we put that in the original

723
00:26:02,070 --> 00:26:00,320
book and the military picked up on it

724
00:26:03,909 --> 00:26:02,080
they she was furious she was going to

725
00:26:05,909 --> 00:26:03,919
sue us she was absolutely furious we had

726
00:26:07,269 --> 00:26:05,919
withheld her name sort of tried to cover

727
00:26:09,190 --> 00:26:07,279
who she was but i guess if you're on a

728
00:26:10,950 --> 00:26:09,200
declassification team and you're a woman

729
00:26:12,149 --> 00:26:10,960
i mean it you know they can sort of go

730
00:26:15,269 --> 00:26:12,159
back and figure out who was on this

731
00:26:16,870 --> 00:26:15,279
clash fish the classification team

732
00:26:18,390 --> 00:26:16,880
where where the general's office was who

733
00:26:19,990 --> 00:26:18,400
it was you know what we gave the date

734
00:26:21,510 --> 00:26:20,000
and all this sort of stuff nobody ever

735
00:26:22,789 --> 00:26:21,520
picked up on that we we put that thing

736
00:26:24,230 --> 00:26:22,799
out we put a couple things in the first

737
00:26:26,310 --> 00:26:24,240
book that nobody ever picked up on it's

738
00:26:28,070 --> 00:26:26,320
like nobody ever read the book and so in

739
00:26:30,149 --> 00:26:28,080
the second we we put the same thing we

740
00:26:31,590 --> 00:26:30,159
put all the mj12 i listed all the

741
00:26:33,750 --> 00:26:31,600
material that showed that there was an

742
00:26:35,190 --> 00:26:33,760
mj12 group forget about the document i

743
00:26:37,430 --> 00:26:35,200
always say the document is not

744
00:26:39,590 --> 00:26:37,440
legitimate and i say it's not legitimate

745
00:26:41,190 --> 00:26:39,600
because there was a live alien and the

746
00:26:43,110 --> 00:26:41,200
document says there's four dead aliens

747
00:26:44,870 --> 00:26:43,120
there's three dead in one life and i

748
00:26:47,830 --> 00:26:44,880
think we know that pretty well for sure

749
00:26:49,350 --> 00:26:47,840
now or that's the general belief so what

750
00:26:52,149 --> 00:26:49,360
they've done with the document is you

751
00:26:53,750 --> 00:26:52,159
put the document out and you change

752
00:26:55,029 --> 00:26:53,760
parts of the document so that if it

753
00:26:56,630 --> 00:26:55,039
comes back to you you say well it's a

754
00:26:58,310 --> 00:26:56,640
hoax it's a phony document well you know

755
00:27:00,230 --> 00:26:58,320
it's only a phony document because you

756
00:27:01,909 --> 00:27:00,240
made it but basically all the right

757
00:27:03,190 --> 00:27:01,919
material is in the document to tell you

758
00:27:05,029 --> 00:27:03,200
what's going on

759
00:27:06,789 --> 00:27:05,039
so um

760
00:27:08,310 --> 00:27:06,799
that was the the

761
00:27:10,070 --> 00:27:08,320
we put that out but that never became

762
00:27:11,750 --> 00:27:10,080
controversial what became controversial

763
00:27:15,750 --> 00:27:11,760
this time when i released it there was a

764
00:27:18,870 --> 00:27:15,760
couple of things um one was um

765
00:27:20,470 --> 00:27:18,880
robert collins was upset about

766
00:27:23,110 --> 00:27:20,480
my sort of

767
00:27:25,830 --> 00:27:23,120
spin on the bill moore story about the

768
00:27:27,830 --> 00:27:25,840
birds about who was who

769
00:27:30,390 --> 00:27:27,840
the falcon and all that the falcon and

770
00:27:32,549 --> 00:27:30,400
stuff and that i had some of it wrong

771
00:27:35,430 --> 00:27:32,559
and that i had

772
00:27:38,070 --> 00:27:35,440
taken his material and put my spin on it

773
00:27:39,750 --> 00:27:38,080
and uh but it came down to who are the

774
00:27:41,909 --> 00:27:39,760
different birds and

775
00:27:43,590 --> 00:27:41,919
uh what was actually going on there

776
00:27:46,390 --> 00:27:43,600
there was that controversy and the other

777
00:27:49,029 --> 00:27:46,400
controversy was from uh lee graham lee

778
00:27:51,110 --> 00:27:49,039
graham if you know the mj12 story what

779
00:27:53,510 --> 00:27:51,120
had happened was bill moore and jamie

780
00:27:56,470 --> 00:27:53,520
chanderay were both cia operatives okay

781
00:27:58,710 --> 00:27:56,480
so they've been uh assets they both

782
00:28:00,070 --> 00:27:58,720
worked for the cia they both had this

783
00:28:03,029 --> 00:28:00,080
interaction and that's how they were

784
00:28:05,190 --> 00:28:03,039
able to accumulate these avery sources

785
00:28:08,230 --> 00:28:05,200
and what the avery were they they were

786
00:28:09,190 --> 00:28:08,240
12 intelligence uh mostly intelligence

787
00:28:11,269 --> 00:28:09,200
people

788
00:28:12,389 --> 00:28:11,279
that they had collected from from the

789
00:28:14,310 --> 00:28:12,399
inside and because they had these

790
00:28:15,590 --> 00:28:14,320
intelligence connections they could go

791
00:28:16,870 --> 00:28:15,600
in there and they could be trusted to

792
00:28:18,230 --> 00:28:16,880
shut their mouths when they were told to

793
00:28:21,110 --> 00:28:18,240
say something to do what they're told to

794
00:28:22,710 --> 00:28:21,120
do and stuff like that and so both of

795
00:28:25,110 --> 00:28:22,720
them had this background and they

796
00:28:26,870 --> 00:28:25,120
accumulated these 12 sources and two of

797
00:28:28,549 --> 00:28:26,880
them i think were cia directors i think

798
00:28:30,710 --> 00:28:28,559
one was richard helms and i think the

799
00:28:32,149 --> 00:28:30,720
other one was robert gates and one of

800
00:28:33,350 --> 00:28:32,159
the rumored stories was that kissinger

801
00:28:35,350 --> 00:28:33,360
was also one of the people that was

802
00:28:36,549 --> 00:28:35,360
feeding them material so they're working

803
00:28:39,190 --> 00:28:36,559
with this whole thing and what would

804
00:28:41,029 --> 00:28:39,200
they happen was in 1984 they received

805
00:28:43,029 --> 00:28:41,039
the mj12 document it comes in jamie

806
00:28:45,430 --> 00:28:43,039
chandray's mailbox and the question at

807
00:28:47,190 --> 00:28:45,440
that time always was well jamie chandray

808
00:28:48,549 --> 00:28:47,200
was he wasn't even a ufologist he was a

809
00:28:50,070 --> 00:28:48,559
film producer in los angeles and the

810
00:28:51,590 --> 00:28:50,080
question was always well why didn't they

811
00:28:53,430 --> 00:28:51,600
send it to moore why did they send it to

812
00:28:55,029 --> 00:28:53,440
amy chandray well because jamie chandra

813
00:28:56,310 --> 00:28:55,039
had an intelligence background and when

814
00:28:57,750 --> 00:28:56,320
you look at these stories there's always

815
00:28:59,669 --> 00:28:57,760
a guy with an intelligence background

816
00:29:00,950 --> 00:28:59,679
like the the emanager sandler thing

817
00:29:02,470 --> 00:29:00,960
sandler had the intelligence background

818
00:29:04,149 --> 00:29:02,480
there's always somebody who's got an

819
00:29:06,389 --> 00:29:04,159
intelligence background who's able to

820
00:29:09,669 --> 00:29:06,399
sort of negotiate and pull this stuff

821
00:29:12,389 --> 00:29:09,679
out so the the document comes in 1984

822
00:29:13,990 --> 00:29:12,399
and they don't release until 1980 and

823
00:29:16,310 --> 00:29:14,000
they're actually forced to to release

824
00:29:17,830 --> 00:29:16,320
the document and they're forced because

825
00:29:19,350 --> 00:29:17,840
uh they are they're withholding it

826
00:29:21,430 --> 00:29:19,360
they're trying to research the document

827
00:29:22,630 --> 00:29:21,440
trying to get to the bottom of it and

828
00:29:24,470 --> 00:29:22,640
then they get the warning from the

829
00:29:26,470 --> 00:29:24,480
falcon that it's about to release be

830
00:29:28,070 --> 00:29:26,480
released in britain and if you want to

831
00:29:29,430 --> 00:29:28,080
make a movie you better release it now

832
00:29:31,669 --> 00:29:29,440
and that's what they had done is they

833
00:29:33,750 --> 00:29:31,679
had leaked the document to tim goode in

834
00:29:35,510 --> 00:29:33,760
great britain and in his book above top

835
00:29:37,830 --> 00:29:35,520
secret he was releasing the document as

836
00:29:40,149 --> 00:29:37,840
well so moore was forced to release the

837
00:29:42,149 --> 00:29:40,159
document but what they had done in part

838
00:29:44,310 --> 00:29:42,159
of the the analysis that they had done

839
00:29:47,590 --> 00:29:44,320
on the document is they used a guy by

840
00:29:48,870 --> 00:29:47,600
the name of lee graham lee graham was a

841
00:29:51,269 --> 00:29:48,880
uh

842
00:29:53,669 --> 00:29:51,279
an aviation buff who worked for skunk

843
00:29:56,070 --> 00:29:53,679
works and he had gone on from skunk

844
00:29:59,510 --> 00:29:56,080
works to work on a satellite program so

845
00:30:01,269 --> 00:29:59,520
he was working in the um in sort of the

846
00:30:03,269 --> 00:30:01,279
aerospace industry

847
00:30:05,430 --> 00:30:03,279
and he was a very interested in all this

848
00:30:07,190 --> 00:30:05,440
kind of stuff and what they would do

849
00:30:08,710 --> 00:30:07,200
is every document that bill moore would

850
00:30:10,870 --> 00:30:08,720
get through these channels through

851
00:30:12,789 --> 00:30:10,880
falcons through whatever they would give

852
00:30:14,230 --> 00:30:12,799
it to lee graham and lee graham would

853
00:30:17,350 --> 00:30:14,240
immediately take it and he would give it

854
00:30:19,350 --> 00:30:17,360
to a security officer at his at aerojet

855
00:30:21,110 --> 00:30:19,360
where he worked this uh satellite

856
00:30:24,149 --> 00:30:21,120
company and of course this would

857
00:30:25,669 --> 00:30:24,159
initiate a security investigation and

858
00:30:27,750 --> 00:30:25,679
lee graham actually lost his job in the

859
00:30:29,510 --> 00:30:27,760
end he ended was forced to resign years

860
00:30:31,110 --> 00:30:29,520
later because of this whole thing but he

861
00:30:33,029 --> 00:30:31,120
would hand it in and of course then the

862
00:30:34,549 --> 00:30:33,039
defense investigative services would get

863
00:30:35,990 --> 00:30:34,559
involved and lee graham would be

864
00:30:37,029 --> 00:30:36,000
investigated and they would investigate

865
00:30:40,230 --> 00:30:37,039
and that's what they were trying to do

866
00:30:41,990 --> 00:30:40,240
is they were trying to get an official

867
00:30:43,830 --> 00:30:42,000
investigation on a document that's how

868
00:30:45,350 --> 00:30:43,840
they did it so lee graham was involved

869
00:30:47,190 --> 00:30:45,360
in this whole process through all the

870
00:30:49,350 --> 00:30:47,200
years for example he was he was the

871
00:30:51,990 --> 00:30:49,360
first guy to get the mj12 document he

872
00:30:54,389 --> 00:30:52,000
was the first guy to get a document

873
00:30:56,549 --> 00:30:54,399
called the the blue blue room document

874
00:30:58,630 --> 00:30:56,559
bill moore had gotten this document that

875
00:31:01,110 --> 00:30:58,640
dealt with the uh it was called the blue

876
00:31:02,470 --> 00:31:01,120
room radar scope document out of ray

877
00:31:04,549 --> 00:31:02,480
patterson air force base and this

878
00:31:06,070 --> 00:31:04,559
document tied into the blue room which

879
00:31:08,630 --> 00:31:06,080
was this rumored room where the where

880
00:31:09,669 --> 00:31:08,640
the bodies and the crafts were kept and

881
00:31:11,430 --> 00:31:09,679
so

882
00:31:12,630 --> 00:31:11,440
these documents were given to lee graham

883
00:31:14,710 --> 00:31:12,640
and he would hand him in a security

884
00:31:17,110 --> 00:31:14,720
officer so lee graham became this sort

885
00:31:19,909 --> 00:31:17,120
of guy that that was in the middle of

886
00:31:22,070 --> 00:31:19,919
these investigations and he also filed

887
00:31:23,909 --> 00:31:22,080
some people said as many as one one of

888
00:31:27,029 --> 00:31:23,919
the documents said as many as 5 000

889
00:31:28,789 --> 00:31:27,039
foias he would put fois on the mj-12

890
00:31:30,789 --> 00:31:28,799
document and he's still filing him with

891
00:31:32,630 --> 00:31:30,799
obama and he's got me dragged into these

892
00:31:34,630 --> 00:31:32,640
things now and what happened was in the

893
00:31:35,909 --> 00:31:34,640
end he would send me all this material

894
00:31:39,350 --> 00:31:35,919
and moore was giving him all this

895
00:31:41,590 --> 00:31:39,360
material including uh uh an actual draw

896
00:31:43,509 --> 00:31:41,600
a drawing or a picture of an alien face

897
00:31:44,950 --> 00:31:43,519
that he had been shown and lee graham

898
00:31:46,549 --> 00:31:44,960
drew it you'll see we put it in the book

899
00:31:49,190 --> 00:31:46,559
and stuff like that right and so in the

900
00:31:51,590 --> 00:31:49,200
end lee graham had an interpretation of

901
00:31:53,590 --> 00:31:51,600
of what he thought was going on so when

902
00:31:55,509 --> 00:31:53,600
i used lee grant's material and he had

903
00:31:58,149 --> 00:31:55,519
like he'd filed foias and he'd put this

904
00:31:59,269 --> 00:31:58,159
material out so he'd send it to me so as

905
00:32:01,110 --> 00:31:59,279
far as i was concerned it was open

906
00:32:02,950 --> 00:32:01,120
source material i didn't degrade lee

907
00:32:04,789 --> 00:32:02,960
graham i basically didn't twist the

908
00:32:06,710 --> 00:32:04,799
story i said this is what happened lee

909
00:32:08,630 --> 00:32:06,720
graham this did this investigative

910
00:32:10,789 --> 00:32:08,640
services got involved or whatever but

911
00:32:12,310 --> 00:32:10,799
because i didn't tell lee graham's story

912
00:32:15,110 --> 00:32:12,320
the way he thought it should be told he

913
00:32:16,789 --> 00:32:15,120
had this idea about time travel and he

914
00:32:19,029 --> 00:32:16,799
didn't believe the falcon was the cia

915
00:32:20,549 --> 00:32:19,039
guy he believed it was hennessy from

916
00:32:24,389 --> 00:32:20,559
from the the guy that was the head of

917
00:32:25,990 --> 00:32:24,399
all the air force security programs

918
00:32:27,669 --> 00:32:26,000
air force security

919
00:32:29,190 --> 00:32:27,679
uh so he disagreed with some of the

920
00:32:31,190 --> 00:32:29,200
interpretations i had it was the same as

921
00:32:33,110 --> 00:32:31,200
as robert collins and because i used the

922
00:32:35,909 --> 00:32:33,120
material and didn't come to their

923
00:32:37,350 --> 00:32:35,919
interpretation of of the the results

924
00:32:38,389 --> 00:32:37,360
they were upset that i was using this

925
00:32:40,470 --> 00:32:38,399
material so those were the two

926
00:32:43,029 --> 00:32:40,480
controversy and the other controversy i

927
00:32:44,389 --> 00:32:43,039
got into was at the um

928
00:32:45,830 --> 00:32:44,399
and this this one nobody picked up

929
00:32:47,190 --> 00:32:45,840
either it was kind of weird

930
00:32:49,509 --> 00:32:47,200
um

931
00:32:50,630 --> 00:32:49,519
this was happened at the uh citizens

932
00:32:51,509 --> 00:32:50,640
hearing

933
00:32:53,509 --> 00:32:51,519
um

934
00:32:56,549 --> 00:32:53,519
a lot of i find in the ufo community

935
00:32:57,750 --> 00:32:56,559
that a lot of ufo people were as bad as

936
00:32:59,350 --> 00:32:57,760
the government if not worse when it

937
00:33:01,590 --> 00:32:59,360
comes to

938
00:33:03,509 --> 00:33:01,600
keeping stuff secret and there there was

939
00:33:04,710 --> 00:33:03,519
there was one particular thing that that

940
00:33:06,230 --> 00:33:04,720
i released

941
00:33:07,669 --> 00:33:06,240
and it was just the way i worded it

942
00:33:10,389 --> 00:33:07,679
wasn't um

943
00:33:12,549 --> 00:33:10,399
it put somebody's the name of the person

944
00:33:15,029 --> 00:33:12,559
who had sort of talked to me about this

945
00:33:17,029 --> 00:33:15,039
and it dealt with a guy

946
00:33:18,950 --> 00:33:17,039
at area 51 and we talked about in the

947
00:33:20,389 --> 00:33:18,960
book i talk about him but i i don't use

948
00:33:21,990 --> 00:33:20,399
his name because at that point i didn't

949
00:33:23,509 --> 00:33:22,000
know the story and the guy's name

950
00:33:24,389 --> 00:33:23,519
actually turns out to be alfred

951
00:33:26,789 --> 00:33:24,399
o'donnell

952
00:33:29,190 --> 00:33:26,799
and he is one of the top guys eg g at

953
00:33:30,870 --> 00:33:29,200
area 51 and he basically confirms the

954
00:33:33,990 --> 00:33:30,880
fact that it's all for real the live

955
00:33:36,389 --> 00:33:34,000
alien story is for real and the back

956
00:33:38,789 --> 00:33:36,399
engineering's for real what happens is

957
00:33:41,350 --> 00:33:38,799
this alfred o'donnell stop stops talking

958
00:33:42,789 --> 00:33:41,360
in 1992 and the reason he stops talking

959
00:33:46,870 --> 00:33:42,799
is because

960
00:33:49,669 --> 00:33:46,880
he has been contacted by a fellow by

961
00:33:51,669 --> 00:33:49,679
name of dick demato who was a

962
00:33:53,669 --> 00:33:51,679
investigator for the appropriations

963
00:33:55,350 --> 00:33:53,679
committee he had been working for

964
00:33:57,830 --> 00:33:55,360
senator byrd ran the appropriations

965
00:33:59,750 --> 00:33:57,840
committee and a number bird and a number

966
00:34:01,990 --> 00:33:59,760
of the

967
00:34:04,070 --> 00:34:02,000
senators on the appropriations committee

968
00:34:05,750 --> 00:34:04,080
got concerned when the area 51 story

969
00:34:07,509 --> 00:34:05,760
first broke the importance of the

970
00:34:10,149 --> 00:34:07,519
appropriations committee is they are the

971
00:34:11,909 --> 00:34:10,159
guys that sort of authorize

972
00:34:13,990 --> 00:34:11,919
all the money that's spent in the us

973
00:34:15,349 --> 00:34:14,000
budget so when all the stories started

974
00:34:16,629 --> 00:34:15,359
coming out about the fact that we had

975
00:34:18,629 --> 00:34:16,639
flying saucers and we were back

976
00:34:20,069 --> 00:34:18,639
engineering all this stuff

977
00:34:21,669 --> 00:34:20,079
bird and all the people in these

978
00:34:22,869 --> 00:34:21,679
senators on the appropriations committee

979
00:34:25,190 --> 00:34:22,879
were sort of looking at each other and

980
00:34:27,510 --> 00:34:25,200
going like are we financing flying

981
00:34:29,109 --> 00:34:27,520
saucers nobody's told us about this

982
00:34:31,750 --> 00:34:29,119
we're paying for this we're the guys

983
00:34:33,430 --> 00:34:31,760
that appropriate the money and

984
00:34:37,109 --> 00:34:33,440
we better look into this so they send

985
00:34:38,950 --> 00:34:37,119
the motto to area 51 to find out

986
00:34:41,030 --> 00:34:38,960
what the heck's going on what are we

987
00:34:42,869 --> 00:34:41,040
actually building flying saucers so

988
00:34:44,069 --> 00:34:42,879
domato gets on there and he interviews

989
00:34:45,990 --> 00:34:44,079
this he tries to interview this

990
00:34:48,069 --> 00:34:46,000
o'donnell guy o'donnell says i'm not

991
00:34:50,389 --> 00:34:48,079
going to talk about it even though

992
00:34:51,750 --> 00:34:50,399
d'amato knows that he knows the story

993
00:34:53,349 --> 00:34:51,760
he says you got to talk to my boss he

994
00:34:55,669 --> 00:34:53,359
goes to his boss

995
00:34:57,109 --> 00:34:55,679
and the boss says well you know i really

996
00:34:58,230 --> 00:34:57,119
wasn't involved in this and i really

997
00:35:00,390 --> 00:34:58,240
don't know anything about this live

998
00:35:01,670 --> 00:35:00,400
alien thing and the flying saucers i

999
00:35:03,430 --> 00:35:01,680
don't care if he wants to talk about it

1000
00:35:05,030 --> 00:35:03,440
i don't care he can talk about it and so

1001
00:35:06,550 --> 00:35:05,040
they go back to o'donnell and o'donnell

1002
00:35:08,390 --> 00:35:06,560
doesn't talk he says no i'm not going to

1003
00:35:10,310 --> 00:35:08,400
talk about it and that's he shuts up

1004
00:35:12,150 --> 00:35:10,320
this is about 1992 oh donald won't talk

1005
00:35:14,230 --> 00:35:12,160
anymore so i release this at citizens

1006
00:35:15,750 --> 00:35:14,240
hearing and i get i get all sorts of

1007
00:35:17,270 --> 00:35:15,760
flack about the fact that you know i

1008
00:35:18,870 --> 00:35:17,280
can't keep my mouth shut and whatever

1009
00:35:19,750 --> 00:35:18,880
and to me it's the old idea it's like

1010
00:35:21,030 --> 00:35:19,760
you know

1011
00:35:22,950 --> 00:35:21,040
how did they how did they know that

1012
00:35:24,069 --> 00:35:22,960
o'donnell was there in 1992 it was the

1013
00:35:26,230 --> 00:35:24,079
same people squealing on him this

1014
00:35:27,589 --> 00:35:26,240
story's been open since 1992 just i'm

1015
00:35:29,670 --> 00:35:27,599
the first guy to come out and use his

1016
00:35:31,430 --> 00:35:29,680
name but you you get into this flock of

1017
00:35:32,870 --> 00:35:31,440
people having all these confidential

1018
00:35:35,109 --> 00:35:32,880
seek you know

1019
00:35:36,950 --> 00:35:35,119
sources for different things and to me

1020
00:35:38,630 --> 00:35:36,960
it's like i always look at it like mj 12

1021
00:35:40,069 --> 00:35:38,640
2. there's i got involved sort of with

1022
00:35:41,589 --> 00:35:40,079
the avery and that sort of fell through

1023
00:35:43,510 --> 00:35:41,599
a number of years ago that i released

1024
00:35:44,950 --> 00:35:43,520
the fact that somebody had talked to two

1025
00:35:46,790 --> 00:35:44,960
u.s presidents

1026
00:35:48,390 --> 00:35:46,800
and i got this flag about you know you

1027
00:35:49,750 --> 00:35:48,400
this was confidential you can't keep

1028
00:35:51,990 --> 00:35:49,760
your must shut and all this stuff and it

1029
00:35:54,470 --> 00:35:52,000
was like well this is like mj 12 2. i

1030
00:35:56,310 --> 00:35:54,480
mean so what you 12 intelligence guys

1031
00:35:58,150 --> 00:35:56,320
figure this thing out how does that help

1032
00:35:59,750 --> 00:35:58,160
society it doesn't help anybody and

1033
00:36:01,990 --> 00:35:59,760
that's what's happening is we have sort

1034
00:36:03,910 --> 00:36:02,000
of like in the ufo community we have a

1035
00:36:05,990 --> 00:36:03,920
lot of people who have a lot of material

1036
00:36:07,829 --> 00:36:06,000
that they don't release a lot of very

1037
00:36:09,750 --> 00:36:07,839
highly classified and i call it

1038
00:36:12,310 --> 00:36:09,760
classified but really important stuff

1039
00:36:14,310 --> 00:36:12,320
like like as i said i have a guy who had

1040
00:36:16,069 --> 00:36:14,320
conversations with two u.s presidents

1041
00:36:17,589 --> 00:36:16,079
but because this is all secret it's like

1042
00:36:20,069 --> 00:36:17,599
well you can't talk about this and it's

1043
00:36:21,829 --> 00:36:20,079
like well what's the point so you did

1044
00:36:22,870 --> 00:36:21,839
this and it's like a bunch of guys that

1045
00:36:25,270 --> 00:36:22,880
sort of

1046
00:36:30,069 --> 00:36:27,430
symbolize it as a bunch of guys who have

1047
00:36:31,589 --> 00:36:30,079
stolen a bunch of picasso paintings and

1048
00:36:33,190 --> 00:36:31,599
they every once in a while they get

1049
00:36:34,870 --> 00:36:33,200
together in some guy's basement and they

1050
00:36:36,790 --> 00:36:34,880
they show off their picasso paintings to

1051
00:36:38,230 --> 00:36:36,800
each other but the public is never going

1052
00:36:39,589 --> 00:36:38,240
to see those paintings and the only

1053
00:36:42,310 --> 00:36:39,599
people that can see it is people who

1054
00:36:43,829 --> 00:36:42,320
they they they really trust in secrecy

1055
00:36:45,430 --> 00:36:43,839
so these are sort of the controversies

1056
00:36:46,310 --> 00:36:45,440
that i got in the book and after the

1057
00:36:48,310 --> 00:36:46,320
book

1058
00:36:50,069 --> 00:36:48,320
the fact that you know that this

1059
00:36:50,950 --> 00:36:50,079
material that i'm releasing and people

1060
00:36:52,069 --> 00:36:50,960
either

1061
00:36:54,710 --> 00:36:52,079
say that i shouldn't have released the

1062
00:36:56,550 --> 00:36:54,720
material or that i'm not interpreting

1063
00:36:59,430 --> 00:36:56,560
the material the way it should and the

1064
00:37:01,109 --> 00:36:59,440
way i work in ufology is i say

1065
00:37:03,109 --> 00:37:01,119
i'm i'm getting on i mean i'm close to

1066
00:37:05,670 --> 00:37:03,119
60 years old now i've been in this since

1067
00:37:07,670 --> 00:37:05,680
you know 1975 i've been in a long time

1068
00:37:10,550 --> 00:37:07,680
i'm running out of time i'm not here to

1069
00:37:12,710 --> 00:37:10,560
play games and my idea is i will put as

1070
00:37:15,670 --> 00:37:12,720
much of what i have on the table as

1071
00:37:18,310 --> 00:37:15,680
possible hoping that somebody somewhere

1072
00:37:20,630 --> 00:37:18,320
has something that will say hey i can

1073
00:37:22,550 --> 00:37:20,640
verify that thank you for putting this

1074
00:37:23,910 --> 00:37:22,560
out because i can use this we have to

1075
00:37:26,150 --> 00:37:23,920
get as much of the material out as

1076
00:37:27,910 --> 00:37:26,160
possible it doesn't help to to withhold

1077
00:37:29,670 --> 00:37:27,920
stuff to keep stuff secret the

1078
00:37:31,190 --> 00:37:29,680
government's doing a good job of that we

1079
00:37:33,990 --> 00:37:31,200
don't need to help them do this kind of

1080
00:37:36,069 --> 00:37:34,000
stuff so that's basically how this came

1081
00:37:38,230 --> 00:37:36,079
down and what i did in the book is i i

1082
00:37:39,270 --> 00:37:38,240
try to put as much as i could on the

1083
00:37:41,589 --> 00:37:39,280
table

1084
00:37:43,829 --> 00:37:41,599
and i still work on it and and what i do

1085
00:37:45,910 --> 00:37:43,839
a lot of is i actually do a lot of

1086
00:37:47,910 --> 00:37:45,920
research in terms of going and finding

1087
00:37:50,069 --> 00:37:47,920
people's files like when a researcher

1088
00:37:51,670 --> 00:37:50,079
dies or puts this file somewhere i go to

1089
00:37:53,349 --> 00:37:51,680
those files for a very specific reason

1090
00:37:55,430 --> 00:37:53,359
because i know everybody's got secrets

1091
00:37:57,910 --> 00:37:55,440
that they never told so you go into the

1092
00:37:59,670 --> 00:37:57,920
files and you want to see what cases did

1093
00:38:01,349 --> 00:37:59,680
that guy never release who was he

1094
00:38:02,950 --> 00:38:01,359
talking to what confidential

1095
00:38:04,870 --> 00:38:02,960
conversations did he have with people

1096
00:38:06,550 --> 00:38:04,880
and i look for that kind of material

1097
00:38:08,230 --> 00:38:06,560
believing that you know we're running

1098
00:38:09,910 --> 00:38:08,240
out of time well i'm running out of time

1099
00:38:12,470 --> 00:38:09,920
in terms of trying to figure out what

1100
00:38:14,470 --> 00:38:12,480
this was because when i started

1101
00:38:18,150 --> 00:38:14,480
as you know you know people will know my

1102
00:38:19,670 --> 00:38:18,160
story that 1975 there was a series of

1103
00:38:21,829 --> 00:38:19,680
sightings happening here just north of

1104
00:38:24,470 --> 00:38:21,839
the the american border is that charlie

1105
00:38:26,390 --> 00:38:24,480
red star is that the red star story yeah

1106
00:38:27,750 --> 00:38:26,400
and this happened two weeks my first

1107
00:38:29,190 --> 00:38:27,760
sighting was two weeks after the end of

1108
00:38:30,470 --> 00:38:29,200
the vietnam war

1109
00:38:32,630 --> 00:38:30,480
it started just before the end of the

1110
00:38:34,630 --> 00:38:32,640
vietnam war i believe it had to do with

1111
00:38:37,030 --> 00:38:34,640
the vietnam war that what had happened

1112
00:38:39,270 --> 00:38:37,040
is i lived right by the the minuteman

1113
00:38:42,310 --> 00:38:39,280
missile silos in north dakota and north

1114
00:38:43,990 --> 00:38:42,320
dakota they always said um if

1115
00:38:48,390 --> 00:38:44,000
uh

1116
00:38:50,069 --> 00:38:48,400
country it would be one of the biggest

1117
00:38:52,630 --> 00:38:50,079
nuclear powers in the world we had the

1118
00:38:54,950 --> 00:38:52,640
the grand forks missile base

1119
00:38:57,349 --> 00:38:54,960
with all the minutemen we had the the

1120
00:38:58,630 --> 00:38:57,359
minot base we had missiles everywhere we

1121
00:39:00,310 --> 00:38:58,640
all knew this

1122
00:39:01,430 --> 00:39:00,320
but when i had the sightings i really

1123
00:39:03,990 --> 00:39:01,440
didn't know what was going on it was a

1124
00:39:06,470 --> 00:39:04,000
small town farming community flat as

1125
00:39:08,710 --> 00:39:06,480
could be nothing significant huge

1126
00:39:10,550 --> 00:39:08,720
numbers of sightings 59 percent when i

1127
00:39:12,150 --> 00:39:10,560
pulled the high school 59 of the kids

1128
00:39:14,390 --> 00:39:12,160
said they'd seen something in the last

1129
00:39:16,390 --> 00:39:14,400
two years a lot a lot of sightings and i

1130
00:39:17,990 --> 00:39:16,400
could never figure out why

1131
00:39:19,670 --> 00:39:18,000
these these sightings were taking place

1132
00:39:21,349 --> 00:39:19,680
and 30 years later i went back to the

1133
00:39:22,950 --> 00:39:21,359
guy who ran the airport who had more

1134
00:39:23,750 --> 00:39:22,960
sightings than i did i had about 100

1135
00:39:25,030 --> 00:39:23,760
over

1136
00:39:26,829 --> 00:39:25,040
a year and a half that i was there

1137
00:39:29,510 --> 00:39:26,839
trying to investigate this he had about

1138
00:39:30,310 --> 00:39:29,520
150 so i said to him i said bob i said

1139
00:39:33,990 --> 00:39:30,320
well

1140
00:39:35,270 --> 00:39:34,000
you know why and i said no bob in 30

1141
00:39:36,870 --> 00:39:35,280
years i have no idea what was going on

1142
00:39:38,310 --> 00:39:36,880
here he said the missile silence i told

1143
00:39:39,589 --> 00:39:38,320
you it was the missile cells they were

1144
00:39:40,950 --> 00:39:39,599
coming from the states i told you that

1145
00:39:43,910 --> 00:39:40,960
there we'd watch them fly out from the

1146
00:39:45,910 --> 00:39:43,920
states so i linked it into this whole

1147
00:39:47,589 --> 00:39:45,920
u.s missile thing

1148
00:39:49,190 --> 00:39:47,599
so when i put out the manuscript back

1149
00:39:50,470 --> 00:39:49,200
1977

1150
00:39:52,069 --> 00:39:50,480
nobody would publish a thing and the

1151
00:39:54,390 --> 00:39:52,079
local publisher and i live in a pretty

1152
00:39:56,069 --> 00:39:54,400
big city 750 000 people the local

1153
00:39:57,990 --> 00:39:56,079
publisher here where the story was very

1154
00:40:00,150 --> 00:39:58,000
popular basically wouldn't publish it

1155
00:40:01,910 --> 00:40:00,160
and her rejection letter said mr cameron

1156
00:40:03,829 --> 00:40:01,920
you may believe in this kind of stuff

1157
00:40:06,230 --> 00:40:03,839
count me among the unbelievers

1158
00:40:08,150 --> 00:40:06,240
and so i said sightings total waste of

1159
00:40:10,150 --> 00:40:08,160
time this is garbage i mean you can tell

1160
00:40:11,190 --> 00:40:10,160
people stories and dazzle them and

1161
00:40:13,270 --> 00:40:11,200
people are going yeah it's kind of

1162
00:40:15,270 --> 00:40:13,280
interesting nobody cares nobody could

1163
00:40:17,510 --> 00:40:15,280
care less about what you saw or anybody

1164
00:40:20,870 --> 00:40:17,520
else saw i said all i'm interested now

1165
00:40:22,870 --> 00:40:20,880
is what did i see somebody has to know

1166
00:40:24,069 --> 00:40:22,880
what i saw somebody has to know more

1167
00:40:25,670 --> 00:40:24,079
about what's going on there has to be

1168
00:40:27,109 --> 00:40:25,680
someone with an answer and that's why i

1169
00:40:28,630 --> 00:40:27,119
started this

1170
00:40:29,750 --> 00:40:28,640
investigation going after the canadian

1171
00:40:31,670 --> 00:40:29,760
government to find out what the canaan

1172
00:40:33,750 --> 00:40:31,680
government did i put that in the book

1173
00:40:35,349 --> 00:40:33,760
and then that led us to dr eric walker

1174
00:40:37,190 --> 00:40:35,359
and we spent eight years chasing him

1175
00:40:39,510 --> 00:40:37,200
around we put everything in the book and

1176
00:40:40,790 --> 00:40:39,520
at one point scott crane because he

1177
00:40:42,150 --> 00:40:40,800
there was some of the stuff as you see

1178
00:40:43,349 --> 00:40:42,160
the walker stuff kind of some it was

1179
00:40:45,030 --> 00:40:43,359
kind of weird i mean he was talking

1180
00:40:47,109 --> 00:40:45,040
about the the live aliens being

1181
00:40:48,790 --> 00:40:47,119
integrated into american society so

1182
00:40:50,230 --> 00:40:48,800
scott said well let's

1183
00:40:52,310 --> 00:40:50,240
let's edit this stuff i said no let's

1184
00:40:54,950 --> 00:40:52,320
not edit anything let's just take

1185
00:40:57,030 --> 00:40:54,960
everything that he told us every letter

1186
00:40:58,630 --> 00:40:57,040
every conversation let's not edit

1187
00:41:00,390 --> 00:40:58,640
anything let's just put it in there the

1188
00:41:02,470 --> 00:41:00,400
good stuff the bad stuff and let people

1189
00:41:04,390 --> 00:41:02,480
determine that we this is what he what

1190
00:41:06,150 --> 00:41:04,400
he told us so i haven't really edited

1191
00:41:08,309 --> 00:41:06,160
anything there and then when i got to

1192
00:41:10,550 --> 00:41:08,319
the he led to the president's that there

1193
00:41:12,550 --> 00:41:10,560
was a set of files that he because he

1194
00:41:14,790 --> 00:41:12,560
was um he had a lot of powerful jobs

1195
00:41:17,030 --> 00:41:14,800
this guy he was the co-developer of the

1196
00:41:19,349 --> 00:41:17,040
homing torpedo during world war ii

1197
00:41:21,190 --> 00:41:19,359
he uh was chairman of the board of the

1198
00:41:23,990 --> 00:41:21,200
institute for defense analysis which is

1199
00:41:25,589 --> 00:41:24,000
the biggest uh or the most powerful

1200
00:41:27,670 --> 00:41:25,599
think tank for the u.s department of

1201
00:41:28,870 --> 00:41:27,680
defense that's where darpa came out of

1202
00:41:30,790 --> 00:41:28,880
darpa

1203
00:41:31,990 --> 00:41:30,800
emerged out of the institute for defense

1204
00:41:34,390 --> 00:41:32,000
analysis

1205
00:41:35,750 --> 00:41:34,400
uh he was uh uh

1206
00:41:37,670 --> 00:41:35,760
the the job that we were trying to get

1207
00:41:38,870 --> 00:41:37,680
his records for he was the executive

1208
00:41:40,950 --> 00:41:38,880
secretary of the research and

1209
00:41:42,950 --> 00:41:40,960
development board which was the

1210
00:41:44,390 --> 00:41:42,960
organization after world war ii that was

1211
00:41:46,309 --> 00:41:44,400
in charge of all the weapon development

1212
00:41:49,109 --> 00:41:46,319
the hydrogen bomb

1213
00:41:50,630 --> 00:41:49,119
all the the latest uh armaments and

1214
00:41:52,630 --> 00:41:50,640
stuff like that so he was the executive

1215
00:41:54,230 --> 00:41:52,640
secretary so he was second in command in

1216
00:41:57,109 --> 00:41:54,240
the pentagon for all the weapon

1217
00:42:00,710 --> 00:41:57,119
development in 1950 and that's when we

1218
00:42:02,790 --> 00:42:00,720
he got involved that's when um

1219
00:42:04,390 --> 00:42:02,800
we sort of find out that he goes to

1220
00:42:06,630 --> 00:42:04,400
these briefings at right patterson air

1221
00:42:09,510 --> 00:42:06,640
force base what we're told

1222
00:42:11,430 --> 00:42:09,520
is by dr robert sarbacher who is one of

1223
00:42:14,230 --> 00:42:11,440
the people who squeals on him uh

1224
00:42:15,910 --> 00:42:14,240
saubacher says uh there was a

1225
00:42:17,109 --> 00:42:15,920
crash in the west he didn't know where

1226
00:42:19,510 --> 00:42:17,119
it was

1227
00:42:21,349 --> 00:42:19,520
and that the material had been taken to

1228
00:42:23,270 --> 00:42:21,359
wright patterson air force base

1229
00:42:25,190 --> 00:42:23,280
and that this he didn't give a date but

1230
00:42:26,710 --> 00:42:25,200
we figured it was 1950

1231
00:42:28,630 --> 00:42:26,720
there was a series of briefings that

1232
00:42:30,470 --> 00:42:28,640
have been taken place for high-ranking

1233
00:42:32,069 --> 00:42:30,480
scientists in washington

1234
00:42:34,150 --> 00:42:32,079
and that saubacher couldn't go he said i

1235
00:42:35,829 --> 00:42:34,160
couldn't go to the briefings but a lot

1236
00:42:37,349 --> 00:42:35,839
of people i was in a navy office in

1237
00:42:38,470 --> 00:42:37,359
washington and a lot of the people who

1238
00:42:40,069 --> 00:42:38,480
were briefed

1239
00:42:41,430 --> 00:42:40,079
scientists and stuff were coming back to

1240
00:42:42,790 --> 00:42:41,440
the navy office

1241
00:42:44,950 --> 00:42:42,800
and were talking about what was what

1242
00:42:47,430 --> 00:42:44,960
they were being told and he remembered

1243
00:42:49,030 --> 00:42:47,440
that the alien was like an insect type

1244
00:42:52,309 --> 00:42:49,040
creature it had like a

1245
00:42:54,630 --> 00:42:52,319
characteristic of an insect and that the

1246
00:42:56,950 --> 00:42:54,640
material was very very uh light and it

1247
00:42:58,630 --> 00:42:56,960
was very very tough so these are the

1248
00:43:00,950 --> 00:42:58,640
things he remembered and stanton

1249
00:43:04,630 --> 00:43:00,960
friedman interviews him and this is 1983

1250
00:43:06,950 --> 00:43:04,640
on on tape and sauerbacher says he

1251
00:43:09,510 --> 00:43:06,960
stands asking well who was there and he

1252
00:43:10,870 --> 00:43:09,520
said well vanvar bush who was the guy

1253
00:43:12,309 --> 00:43:10,880
the science advisor to president

1254
00:43:14,630 --> 00:43:12,319
roosevelt the guy in charge of the

1255
00:43:16,470 --> 00:43:14,640
atomic bomb the guy that's rumored to be

1256
00:43:18,230 --> 00:43:16,480
in charge of the flying saucer thing

1257
00:43:19,190 --> 00:43:18,240
when it first started the roswell thing

1258
00:43:21,829 --> 00:43:19,200
he was the guy who was running the

1259
00:43:23,109 --> 00:43:21,839
flying saucer program uh he mentions von

1260
00:43:25,430 --> 00:43:23,119
braun

1261
00:43:27,430 --> 00:43:25,440
from saturn v he mentions von neumann

1262
00:43:29,670 --> 00:43:27,440
who's been sort of credited with

1263
00:43:31,190 --> 00:43:29,680
inventing the computer uh he's naming

1264
00:43:32,790 --> 00:43:31,200
off all these guys in stanton system

1265
00:43:33,829 --> 00:43:32,800
well robert i mean you're naming all

1266
00:43:35,349 --> 00:43:33,839
these guys that are dead is there

1267
00:43:37,109 --> 00:43:35,359
anybody that could possibly still be

1268
00:43:38,710 --> 00:43:37,119
alive and that's when he said well yeah

1269
00:43:40,390 --> 00:43:38,720
there was this guy from pennsylvania he

1270
00:43:42,069 --> 00:43:40,400
was real arrogant man that guy went to

1271
00:43:44,230 --> 00:43:42,079
every meeting he thought he knew

1272
00:43:46,470 --> 00:43:44,240
everything and that's when we analyzed

1273
00:43:49,589 --> 00:43:46,480
and we find out a researcher in

1274
00:43:51,670 --> 00:43:49,599
california determines that this is dr

1275
00:43:53,910 --> 00:43:51,680
eric walker and that's when he phones

1276
00:43:55,670 --> 00:43:53,920
him up and he says you know this is like

1277
00:43:58,630 --> 00:43:55,680
days after the mj-12 document is

1278
00:44:00,710 --> 00:43:58,640
released in 1987 and he says

1279
00:44:02,950 --> 00:44:00,720
you know i i understand from dr robert

1280
00:44:04,470 --> 00:44:02,960
saubacher that you attended a series of

1281
00:44:06,630 --> 00:44:04,480
briefings at wright patterson air force

1282
00:44:08,950 --> 00:44:06,640
base and it dealt with the recovery of a

1283
00:44:12,150 --> 00:44:08,960
flying saucer and extraterrestrial

1284
00:44:13,589 --> 00:44:12,160
bodies and walker says yeah i was there

1285
00:44:16,069 --> 00:44:13,599
what do you want to know about that for

1286
00:44:17,750 --> 00:44:16,079
that's uh friends diamonds gets freaking

1287
00:44:19,589 --> 00:44:17,760
out wow this is the most important

1288
00:44:21,589 --> 00:44:19,599
subject in the world and and then

1289
00:44:23,670 --> 00:44:21,599
walker's saying well calm down

1290
00:44:25,510 --> 00:44:23,680
what's the big what's the big uh thing

1291
00:44:26,790 --> 00:44:25,520
and and this is how this thing starts

1292
00:44:29,349 --> 00:44:26,800
that we figure out that this walker

1293
00:44:30,950 --> 00:44:29,359
knows i mean he basically doesn't deny

1294
00:44:32,870 --> 00:44:30,960
anything right doesn't deny anything and

1295
00:44:35,190 --> 00:44:32,880
then even when when simon says to

1296
00:44:36,950 --> 00:44:35,200
yourself i got this document

1297
00:44:39,510 --> 00:44:36,960
talking about mj 12 and he cuts them off

1298
00:44:40,870 --> 00:44:39,520
and he says look i've known of them for

1299
00:44:42,309 --> 00:44:40,880
40 years

1300
00:44:45,589 --> 00:44:42,319
leave it alone there's nothing you can

1301
00:44:47,270 --> 00:44:45,599
do about it so from 1987 days after the

1302
00:44:48,790 --> 00:44:47,280
document comes out and it's not public

1303
00:44:50,390 --> 00:44:48,800
it was released at the mufon conference

1304
00:44:51,750 --> 00:44:50,400
in washington but it's not public in

1305
00:44:53,190 --> 00:44:51,760
newspapers or anything and walker says

1306
00:44:58,309 --> 00:44:53,200
i've known of them

1307
00:45:00,150 --> 00:44:58,319
since 1987 is known of them since 1947.

1308
00:45:02,870 --> 00:45:00,160
so we knew it instinctively that this

1309
00:45:04,390 --> 00:45:02,880
was a critically important guy this guy

1310
00:45:07,270 --> 00:45:04,400
knew what was going on

1311
00:45:09,829 --> 00:45:07,280
uh he was he had done some studies on

1312
00:45:11,589 --> 00:45:09,839
engineering for president eisenhower the

1313
00:45:13,270 --> 00:45:11,599
president before him at penn state

1314
00:45:15,190 --> 00:45:13,280
university that appointed him vice

1315
00:45:17,109 --> 00:45:15,200
president was milton eisenhower who was

1316
00:45:18,630 --> 00:45:17,119
the president's brother it's a very very

1317
00:45:20,390 --> 00:45:18,640
powerful guy

1318
00:45:21,190 --> 00:45:20,400
and so

1319
00:45:26,630 --> 00:45:21,200
we

1320
00:45:28,950 --> 00:45:26,640
to get him to talk and even after

1321
00:45:30,230 --> 00:45:28,960
the book is released in 1991 the first

1322
00:45:31,750 --> 00:45:30,240
version of this book that we've just

1323
00:45:35,430 --> 00:45:31,760
released

1324
00:45:37,109 --> 00:45:35,440
in 1991 um we suddenly

1325
00:45:38,790 --> 00:45:37,119
sort of occurred to me he's doing an

1326
00:45:40,630 --> 00:45:38,800
interview with stanton friedman and

1327
00:45:41,750 --> 00:45:40,640
stanton really had problems with it

1328
00:45:43,829 --> 00:45:41,760
because he would never talk to stanton

1329
00:45:45,910 --> 00:45:43,839
stanton said to me he said well you know

1330
00:45:47,430 --> 00:45:45,920
the guys evidently knows something but

1331
00:45:48,790 --> 00:45:47,440
what you can't squeeze squeeze it out of

1332
00:45:50,870 --> 00:45:48,800
him you know he can't you can't make him

1333
00:45:52,150 --> 00:45:50,880
talk and so he wouldn't tell stan but he

1334
00:45:53,510 --> 00:45:52,160
did tell stanton something very

1335
00:45:55,910 --> 00:45:53,520
significant he'd stanton interviewed him

1336
00:45:57,990 --> 00:45:55,920
in 1990 and instead he was making some

1337
00:46:00,630 --> 00:45:58,000
cracks about the roswell book and he was

1338
00:46:02,550 --> 00:46:00,640
sort of you know

1339
00:46:05,349 --> 00:46:02,560
saying various things like that and then

1340
00:46:06,790 --> 00:46:05,359
he was he said you know i i i was only

1341
00:46:09,349 --> 00:46:06,800
involved in this for a couple of days

1342
00:46:10,710 --> 00:46:09,359
and i haven't been involved for 25 years

1343
00:46:13,270 --> 00:46:10,720
and after the book was released i

1344
00:46:16,069 --> 00:46:13,280
suddenly went whoa you know 1990 it was

1345
00:46:17,670 --> 00:46:16,079
the interview you go back 25 years if he

1346
00:46:18,510 --> 00:46:17,680
was involved for a couple of days that

1347
00:46:23,349 --> 00:46:18,520
was

1348
00:46:25,349 --> 00:46:23,359
kecksburg pennsylvania so i go and i

1349
00:46:26,950 --> 00:46:25,359
look on a map and sure enough it's like

1350
00:46:29,349 --> 00:46:26,960
a hundred miles away from penn state

1351
00:46:32,069 --> 00:46:29,359
university and dr eric walker had a had

1352
00:46:34,390 --> 00:46:32,079
a an aviation license he was a pilot

1353
00:46:35,670 --> 00:46:34,400
they had an airport right at penn state

1354
00:46:38,550 --> 00:46:35,680
university because they were training

1355
00:46:40,950 --> 00:46:38,560
pilots there uh not

1356
00:46:42,630 --> 00:46:40,960
just commercial pilot type stuff and so

1357
00:46:44,790 --> 00:46:42,640
i went wow he could just jump on a plane

1358
00:46:46,550 --> 00:46:44,800
he could be in texburg in 30 minutes and

1359
00:46:48,550 --> 00:46:46,560
i mean he could they could he'd be in

1360
00:46:49,829 --> 00:46:48,560
and out of there so we phoned him up

1361
00:46:51,910 --> 00:46:49,839
even this is after the book and he

1362
00:46:53,430 --> 00:46:51,920
realized he'd been had that that we we

1363
00:46:55,270 --> 00:46:53,440
knew who he was and we had published all

1364
00:46:56,950 --> 00:46:55,280
this material and the guy from great

1365
00:46:58,630 --> 00:46:56,960
britain phones them up and he says dr

1366
00:47:00,870 --> 00:46:58,640
walker says uh

1367
00:47:02,150 --> 00:47:00,880
i got another question for you said i i

1368
00:47:03,270 --> 00:47:02,160
got i don't know whether this has

1369
00:47:04,950 --> 00:47:03,280
anything to do with what we're talking

1370
00:47:07,510 --> 00:47:04,960
about but were you in ketchup

1371
00:47:10,069 --> 00:47:07,520
pennsylvania in 1965.

1372
00:47:12,230 --> 00:47:10,079
walker says yeah i was there i was there

1373
00:47:13,750 --> 00:47:12,240
with two off-duty military people and

1374
00:47:15,829 --> 00:47:13,760
then the guy says well dr mark i know

1375
00:47:17,510 --> 00:47:15,839
you don't like to talk about this but

1376
00:47:19,750 --> 00:47:17,520
let me ask you i mean can i ask you

1377
00:47:21,829 --> 00:47:19,760
what's it a ufo and then walker says i

1378
00:47:23,109 --> 00:47:21,839
told you i don't talk about this subject

1379
00:47:24,870 --> 00:47:23,119
you're always trying to squeeze this out

1380
00:47:26,790 --> 00:47:24,880
of me i'm not going to talk about it and

1381
00:47:28,790 --> 00:47:26,800
then as a daddle the guy who's doing the

1382
00:47:30,950 --> 00:47:28,800
interview says well you know dr walker

1383
00:47:32,710 --> 00:47:30,960
says i'm i'm kind of like a turtle you

1384
00:47:34,069 --> 00:47:32,720
kick me over i'm lying on my back and i

1385
00:47:35,430 --> 00:47:34,079
just roll back and forth back and forth

1386
00:47:36,230 --> 00:47:35,440
until i finally get back on my feet

1387
00:47:38,710 --> 00:47:36,240
again

1388
00:47:41,349 --> 00:47:38,720
so the this is the sort of the game to

1389
00:47:43,829 --> 00:47:41,359
me it's been sort of a game to play to

1390
00:47:45,510 --> 00:47:43,839
figure out who knows what's going on and

1391
00:47:49,190 --> 00:47:45,520
then to get

1392
00:47:51,270 --> 00:47:49,200
information and to try to run that uh

1393
00:47:52,950 --> 00:47:51,280
run that to ground where i think

1394
00:47:54,950 --> 00:47:52,960
sometimes we made a mistake in the ufo

1395
00:47:56,230 --> 00:47:54,960
community i i sort of talk about

1396
00:47:59,030 --> 00:47:56,240
sometimes that we

1397
00:48:00,710 --> 00:47:59,040
we we deal with the messiah that we we

1398
00:48:02,150 --> 00:48:00,720
we're always looking for the next case

1399
00:48:03,910 --> 00:48:02,160
we're looking for the thing that the

1400
00:48:05,910 --> 00:48:03,920
crash that the government can't control

1401
00:48:08,550 --> 00:48:05,920
or the witness that's got all the story

1402
00:48:11,430 --> 00:48:08,560
that or the researcher who's going to be

1403
00:48:12,870 --> 00:48:11,440
the guy with no uh bad background who's

1404
00:48:14,470 --> 00:48:12,880
going to bring just the right witnesses

1405
00:48:15,910 --> 00:48:14,480
out and so we're always hopeful of all

1406
00:48:17,589 --> 00:48:15,920
this kind of stuff and then what happens

1407
00:48:18,870 --> 00:48:17,599
is you know you get stephen girl with

1408
00:48:20,630 --> 00:48:18,880
the disclosure news conference and

1409
00:48:21,829 --> 00:48:20,640
everybody's excited you figure here it

1410
00:48:22,950 --> 00:48:21,839
is we're going to have disclosure and

1411
00:48:25,109 --> 00:48:22,960
then suddenly there's a couple of

1412
00:48:27,430 --> 00:48:25,119
witnesses aren't maybe vetted quite

1413
00:48:29,190 --> 00:48:27,440
bright and every goes i knew i knew he

1414
00:48:31,349 --> 00:48:29,200
wasn't the messiah and suddenly

1415
00:48:32,630 --> 00:48:31,359
everybody's against stephen greer or you

1416
00:48:35,109 --> 00:48:32,640
know the

1417
00:48:36,870 --> 00:48:35,119
the whole thing with the uh uh citizens

1418
00:48:38,790 --> 00:48:36,880
hearing you know everybody thinks it's

1419
00:48:40,150 --> 00:48:38,800
great and then you find out well some

1420
00:48:42,150 --> 00:48:40,160
people get critical and then it's like

1421
00:48:44,309 --> 00:48:42,160
oh that's not right and and we we just

1422
00:48:46,309 --> 00:48:44,319
keep jumping from one story to another

1423
00:48:47,670 --> 00:48:46,319
story and that's why i think it's so

1424
00:48:49,030 --> 00:48:47,680
easy for the government to set us up

1425
00:48:50,870 --> 00:48:49,040
because we're always looking for the

1426
00:48:52,790 --> 00:48:50,880
messiah we're looking for this story

1427
00:48:54,470 --> 00:48:52,800
that everybody hasn't found yet we're

1428
00:48:55,510 --> 00:48:54,480
looking under all the rocks and we

1429
00:48:57,510 --> 00:48:55,520
haven't gone back and actually

1430
00:48:59,910 --> 00:48:57,520
investigated the stories we already have

1431
00:49:01,430 --> 00:48:59,920
that basically tell us what's going on

1432
00:49:03,349 --> 00:49:01,440
and that would even come down to the

1433
00:49:05,510 --> 00:49:03,359
mj12 thing which i told you in the

1434
00:49:07,510 --> 00:49:05,520
original book we put the stuff about

1435
00:49:09,750 --> 00:49:07,520
nj12 and everybody said oh the document

1436
00:49:12,069 --> 00:49:09,760
is phony don't even bring up the mj12

1437
00:49:14,870 --> 00:49:12,079
story and it's like yes we know the mj12

1438
00:49:16,390 --> 00:49:14,880
story is the document is phony but

1439
00:49:18,549 --> 00:49:16,400
nobody looked at the evidence that we

1440
00:49:20,710 --> 00:49:18,559
had brought forward for mg12 and some of

1441
00:49:22,630 --> 00:49:20,720
it is extremely significant evidence

1442
00:49:25,109 --> 00:49:22,640
that basically says

1443
00:49:26,790 --> 00:49:25,119
yes mj-12 exists and let me give you a

1444
00:49:27,910 --> 00:49:26,800
couple of examples there was a guy named

1445
00:49:31,190 --> 00:49:27,920
of

1446
00:49:33,430 --> 00:49:31,200
john andrews who was the guy from tester

1447
00:49:35,750 --> 00:49:33,440
corporation who was a friend of ben rich

1448
00:49:39,349 --> 00:49:35,760
at lockheed skunk works and he's the guy

1449
00:49:41,670 --> 00:49:39,359
that that did the model the most popular

1450
00:49:44,470 --> 00:49:41,680
tester model of the

1451
00:49:47,030 --> 00:49:44,480
roswell crash thing he he made the model

1452
00:49:48,950 --> 00:49:47,040
and he was an aerospace expert he was

1453
00:49:51,030 --> 00:49:48,960
very into it he knew ben rich and he

1454
00:49:54,309 --> 00:49:51,040
writes a letter in 1987 which we put in

1455
00:49:55,349 --> 00:49:54,319
the new book that basically says

1456
00:49:56,950 --> 00:49:55,359
and this is when the document was

1457
00:49:59,430 --> 00:49:56,960
released the mj12 document was released

1458
00:50:00,950 --> 00:49:59,440
he said i've known of mj-12 for years

1459
00:50:02,069 --> 00:50:00,960
even though it wasn't public i've known

1460
00:50:04,870 --> 00:50:02,079
about it

1461
00:50:07,109 --> 00:50:04,880
so the you have a high-ranking guy who's

1462
00:50:08,549 --> 00:50:07,119
saying before the document was out we

1463
00:50:10,549 --> 00:50:08,559
all knew about mj-12 we knew there was

1464
00:50:11,750 --> 00:50:10,559
this control group and then in the most

1465
00:50:13,109 --> 00:50:11,760
recent

1466
00:50:16,230 --> 00:50:13,119
there's an article i've just released on

1467
00:50:18,390 --> 00:50:16,240
my website which is presidential ufo.com

1468
00:50:21,030 --> 00:50:18,400
i bring out two very recent i in the

1469
00:50:22,630 --> 00:50:21,040
book we have about 12 items that show

1470
00:50:26,150 --> 00:50:22,640
that there is a control group and it is

1471
00:50:28,069 --> 00:50:26,160
called mj12 and this involves you know

1472
00:50:29,510 --> 00:50:28,079
john andrews and a guy from inside the

1473
00:50:31,750 --> 00:50:29,520
vault who comes and talks to me in

1474
00:50:33,990 --> 00:50:31,760
arizona at one or arkansas during after

1475
00:50:36,230 --> 00:50:34,000
one presentation and people like that

1476
00:50:38,710 --> 00:50:36,240
that confirm this and the latest two are

1477
00:50:41,750 --> 00:50:38,720
very significant at the citizens hearing

1478
00:50:44,230 --> 00:50:41,760
i contacted jesse marcel jr

1479
00:50:46,069 --> 00:50:44,240
jesse marcel jr had told this story that

1480
00:50:48,790 --> 00:50:46,079
dealt with this dick tomato that had

1481
00:50:50,870 --> 00:50:48,800
gone to area 51. and dick d'amato had

1482
00:50:53,750 --> 00:50:50,880
tried to get to the bottom of the whole

1483
00:50:55,589 --> 00:50:53,760
ufo story he goes to area 51 he

1484
00:50:56,950 --> 00:50:55,599
interviews a lot of the major

1485
00:50:58,309 --> 00:50:56,960
researchers

1486
00:51:00,549 --> 00:50:58,319
and he actually makes a statement to

1487
00:51:01,430 --> 00:51:00,559
stephen greer steven greer at the end he

1488
00:51:04,150 --> 00:51:01,440
says

1489
00:51:07,030 --> 00:51:04,160
i had the highest security clearances in

1490
00:51:09,510 --> 00:51:07,040
in the country i had access to whoever i

1491
00:51:11,510 --> 00:51:09,520
wanted to talk to i was able to get

1492
00:51:13,190 --> 00:51:11,520
nothing on this and he says to stephen

1493
00:51:15,829 --> 00:51:13,200
greer i just want to let you know you

1494
00:51:18,309 --> 00:51:15,839
are up against the varsity team of all

1495
00:51:19,829 --> 00:51:18,319
black budget programs i wish you luck

1496
00:51:22,870 --> 00:51:19,839
and then he laughs

1497
00:51:25,829 --> 00:51:22,880
and so d'amato there's a story that

1498
00:51:28,150 --> 00:51:25,839
d'amato takes jessie marcel jr into a

1499
00:51:29,510 --> 00:51:28,160
room in the senate building

1500
00:51:31,589 --> 00:51:29,520
a secure

1501
00:51:34,069 --> 00:51:31,599
room and tells him the story so i

1502
00:51:35,910 --> 00:51:34,079
contact jesse marcel jr and i want to

1503
00:51:37,829 --> 00:51:35,920
use it my testimony at the citizens

1504
00:51:40,230 --> 00:51:37,839
hearing i want to tell this story so i

1505
00:51:43,270 --> 00:51:40,240
talked i i send an email i talked to one

1506
00:51:44,790 --> 00:51:43,280
of jesse marcel's people that sort of

1507
00:51:46,549 --> 00:51:44,800
book stuff for him and stuff like that

1508
00:51:48,630 --> 00:51:46,559
and he says well ask jesse about it

1509
00:51:50,549 --> 00:51:48,640
jesse never replies but then jesse gets

1510
00:51:51,829 --> 00:51:50,559
a citizen's hearing and he tells the

1511
00:51:53,670 --> 00:51:51,839
story he stands up and he tells the

1512
00:51:55,670 --> 00:51:53,680
story he says i was contacted by the

1513
00:51:57,750 --> 00:51:55,680
thick the model dick domato brings me to

1514
00:52:00,069 --> 00:51:57,760
washington he says i want to talk to you

1515
00:52:01,670 --> 00:52:00,079
and so he goes to washington and he says

1516
00:52:03,829 --> 00:52:01,680
we're going to go to the secure room

1517
00:52:07,190 --> 00:52:03,839
they take him to this secure room

1518
00:52:09,430 --> 00:52:07,200
229 i think is the room and jesse says

1519
00:52:10,870 --> 00:52:09,440
uh he says i want to talk about roswell

1520
00:52:12,710 --> 00:52:10,880
jesse says well i've said everything

1521
00:52:14,390 --> 00:52:12,720
i've said about roswell i can't tell you

1522
00:52:16,549 --> 00:52:14,400
anything new and he said no i want to

1523
00:52:19,270 --> 00:52:16,559
tell you something and he's got the book

1524
00:52:20,870 --> 00:52:19,280
by whitley strieber called majestic the

1525
00:52:22,390 --> 00:52:20,880
book is sitting on the table and he

1526
00:52:25,349 --> 00:52:22,400
points at the book and he says i just

1527
00:52:27,670 --> 00:52:25,359
want to let you know jesse this is true

1528
00:52:29,349 --> 00:52:27,680
this is not fiction whitley strieber had

1529
00:52:31,030 --> 00:52:29,359
written the book as fiction

1530
00:52:33,030 --> 00:52:31,040
and what the story is it's not the

1531
00:52:34,390 --> 00:52:33,040
roswell story if he had been the roswell

1532
00:52:36,710 --> 00:52:34,400
story he would have put a roswell book

1533
00:52:39,430 --> 00:52:36,720
on table he put the majestic book on the

1534
00:52:41,030 --> 00:52:39,440
table and the the story is whitley

1535
00:52:43,349 --> 00:52:41,040
strieber is talking about his uncle or

1536
00:52:45,910 --> 00:52:43,359
whatever this relative was this guy

1537
00:52:48,710 --> 00:52:45,920
right high-ranking guy ray patterson air

1538
00:52:50,230 --> 00:52:48,720
force base who tells him the roswell is

1539
00:52:52,069 --> 00:52:50,240
for real the materials brought to ray

1540
00:52:54,710 --> 00:52:52,079
patterson air force base and that there

1541
00:52:56,870 --> 00:52:54,720
is this majestic group that is running

1542
00:52:59,829 --> 00:52:56,880
the show this this control group that

1543
00:53:02,150 --> 00:52:59,839
runs the ufo program so when the motto

1544
00:53:04,150 --> 00:53:02,160
says this is for real and he points to

1545
00:53:05,349 --> 00:53:04,160
the majestic book he's saying and he

1546
00:53:08,150 --> 00:53:05,359
says to

1547
00:53:09,510 --> 00:53:08,160
uh or jesse asks him jesse says

1548
00:53:11,829 --> 00:53:09,520
well when are you going to make this

1549
00:53:14,470 --> 00:53:11,839
public and d'amato says well if it was

1550
00:53:16,790 --> 00:53:14,480
up to me i would have done it yesterday

1551
00:53:19,750 --> 00:53:16,800
but that's not my job i'm just here i

1552
00:53:22,710 --> 00:53:19,760
was just hired to find out what's going

1553
00:53:24,549 --> 00:53:22,720
on and what this security is costing the

1554
00:53:26,790 --> 00:53:24,559
united states of america there's nothing

1555
00:53:29,670 --> 00:53:26,800
i can really do about it but i i want to

1556
00:53:31,829 --> 00:53:29,680
tell you that there is a black group

1557
00:53:34,390 --> 00:53:31,839
with no responsibility to the government

1558
00:53:36,390 --> 00:53:34,400
they're not elected that has unlimited

1559
00:53:38,069 --> 00:53:36,400
amounts of money that is running this

1560
00:53:40,630 --> 00:53:38,079
program and he tells that to jesse and

1561
00:53:42,710 --> 00:53:40,640
jesse testifies if you go jesse marcel

1562
00:53:44,950 --> 00:53:42,720
and you get his testimony he talks tells

1563
00:53:47,430 --> 00:53:44,960
his story that was the one new piece i

1564
00:53:50,069 --> 00:53:47,440
added the other new piece i added was

1565
00:53:53,109 --> 00:53:50,079
spectacular piece it's john alexander

1566
00:53:55,109 --> 00:53:53,119
john alexander and you probably know him

1567
00:53:56,630 --> 00:53:55,119
john is a guy who's been in ufos since

1568
00:53:58,710 --> 00:53:56,640
1947

1569
00:54:01,750 --> 00:53:58,720
he's a guy who i always say the number

1570
00:54:03,750 --> 00:54:01,760
one question ufology is what are ufos

1571
00:54:05,670 --> 00:54:03,760
number two question in ufology is what

1572
00:54:07,349 --> 00:54:05,680
the hell's john alexander up to

1573
00:54:08,309 --> 00:54:07,359
he's always been the rumor like what is

1574
00:54:10,470 --> 00:54:08,319
he doing is he working for the

1575
00:54:13,349 --> 00:54:10,480
government is he black ops is he you

1576
00:54:16,069 --> 00:54:13,359
know whatever and john is always there i

1577
00:54:19,670 --> 00:54:16,079
was just in los angeles for uh james fox

1578
00:54:21,589 --> 00:54:19,680
was doing the his his movie the 701

1579
00:54:23,190 --> 00:54:21,599
right and i and i go there and i'm i'm

1580
00:54:25,349 --> 00:54:23,200
doing my little thing and i'm on the on

1581
00:54:27,270 --> 00:54:25,359
the set at the studio there and there's

1582
00:54:29,589 --> 00:54:27,280
john john alexander's sitting in the

1583
00:54:31,430 --> 00:54:29,599
shadows i mean he's off set in the dark

1584
00:54:33,270 --> 00:54:31,440
and he's taking notes he was

1585
00:54:34,390 --> 00:54:33,280
most of the interviews he was there and

1586
00:54:35,190 --> 00:54:34,400
he was being interviewed as well but

1587
00:54:36,390 --> 00:54:35,200
he's sitting there listening to

1588
00:54:37,910 --> 00:54:36,400
everybody else's interviews and

1589
00:54:39,030 --> 00:54:37,920
everybody's there's kind of a discussion

1590
00:54:40,710 --> 00:54:39,040
behind the scenes like what the hell's

1591
00:54:42,230 --> 00:54:40,720
he doing here like i mean is he spying

1592
00:54:44,549 --> 00:54:42,240
on us and all of our stuff so there's

1593
00:54:45,750 --> 00:54:44,559
always this thing that john is kind of

1594
00:54:47,829 --> 00:54:45,760
the guy who's working for the government

1595
00:54:48,950 --> 00:54:47,839
and reporting on everybody and all this

1596
00:54:51,510 --> 00:54:48,960
kind of stuff but he always plays the

1597
00:54:52,790 --> 00:54:51,520
skeptic john will always say ufos are

1598
00:54:53,910 --> 00:54:52,800
real

1599
00:54:55,670 --> 00:54:53,920
but

1600
00:54:57,190 --> 00:54:55,680
the government doesn't care the

1601
00:54:58,390 --> 00:54:57,200
government is not covering up anything

1602
00:55:00,390 --> 00:54:58,400
they don't care

1603
00:55:02,549 --> 00:55:00,400
they there's no money going into that

1604
00:55:04,790 --> 00:55:02,559
there's there's no cover-up alexandra's

1605
00:55:07,670 --> 00:55:04,800
former military right yeah he's a he's a

1606
00:55:08,790 --> 00:55:07,680
colonel in the uh us army he was green

1607
00:55:10,470 --> 00:55:08,800
beret

1608
00:55:11,670 --> 00:55:10,480
uh he was involved in a lot of the

1609
00:55:13,990 --> 00:55:11,680
paranormal

1610
00:55:15,510 --> 00:55:14,000
uh type research and he was always

1611
00:55:17,190 --> 00:55:15,520
famously known as the guy who was in

1612
00:55:19,990 --> 00:55:17,200
charge of the non-lethal weapon program

1613
00:55:21,349 --> 00:55:20,000
for the us military so uh he had all

1614
00:55:22,950 --> 00:55:21,359
this sort of stuff and a lot of people

1615
00:55:24,710 --> 00:55:22,960
sort of tied him into the mill lab

1616
00:55:27,030 --> 00:55:24,720
program we're saying that he was running

1617
00:55:29,270 --> 00:55:27,040
the mill lab program and john has sort

1618
00:55:31,670 --> 00:55:29,280
of handled all this i think quite well i

1619
00:55:33,270 --> 00:55:31,680
mean he's he's an okay guy i like john

1620
00:55:35,030 --> 00:55:33,280
but it was always the thing is what's

1621
00:55:36,790 --> 00:55:35,040
john actually up to is he you know is he

1622
00:55:38,309 --> 00:55:36,800
reporting on us is he doing whatever

1623
00:55:39,829 --> 00:55:38,319
because he plays this thing like it's

1624
00:55:42,470 --> 00:55:39,839
all for real and he writes the book on

1625
00:55:43,829 --> 00:55:42,480
on ufos and he's quite eloquent in the

1626
00:55:46,390 --> 00:55:43,839
book but in the book he doesn't talk

1627
00:55:49,190 --> 00:55:46,400
about mj 12. he talks about the the

1628
00:55:51,109 --> 00:55:49,200
roswell he says that there's no roswell

1629
00:55:53,829 --> 00:55:51,119
there are no alien abductions there's no

1630
00:55:56,309 --> 00:55:53,839
mill lab uh there are ufos it's the

1631
00:55:58,950 --> 00:55:56,319
government it's very uh you know

1632
00:56:00,549 --> 00:55:58,960
elusive problem that we are don't even

1633
00:56:01,589 --> 00:56:00,559
know how to ask the right questions but

1634
00:56:03,910 --> 00:56:01,599
the government doesn't care about it

1635
00:56:05,589 --> 00:56:03,920
that's that's his basic premise

1636
00:56:07,349 --> 00:56:05,599
in his book that he released i guess

1637
00:56:08,789 --> 00:56:07,359
about two years ago he doesn't talk

1638
00:56:10,630 --> 00:56:08,799
about mj-12

1639
00:56:13,190 --> 00:56:10,640
but in a recent interview he's asked

1640
00:56:15,990 --> 00:56:13,200
about mj-12 and he says well

1641
00:56:17,910 --> 00:56:16,000
i didn't think it existed but it does

1642
00:56:19,109 --> 00:56:17,920
and i'm wow i couldn't believe it john

1643
00:56:21,589 --> 00:56:19,119
alexander's actually admitting that

1644
00:56:23,829 --> 00:56:21,599
mj-12 exists now of course he's he spins

1645
00:56:27,430 --> 00:56:23,839
it different he says uh she said well do

1646
00:56:29,510 --> 00:56:27,440
you think the this is uh nancy de chetra

1647
00:56:31,109 --> 00:56:29,520
was interviewing him she says well do

1648
00:56:32,789 --> 00:56:31,119
you think that the the government

1649
00:56:35,270 --> 00:56:32,799
there's still an mj12 and he says well

1650
00:56:37,430 --> 00:56:35,280
no i don't think there there was an mj12

1651
00:56:41,990 --> 00:56:37,440
someone just whispered in my ear

1652
00:56:44,630 --> 00:56:42,000
that it existed and he asked the guy are

1653
00:56:47,190 --> 00:56:44,640
the names right now there's always a

1654
00:56:49,589 --> 00:56:47,200
controversy when the mj-12 document came

1655
00:56:51,829 --> 00:56:49,599
out in 1987 about the names because one

1656
00:56:53,190 --> 00:56:51,839
of them was menzel who was a big skeptic

1657
00:56:55,030 --> 00:56:53,200
and it was always like what men's will

1658
00:56:56,630 --> 00:56:55,040
be doing on the committee but john

1659
00:56:58,870 --> 00:56:56,640
alexander gets a confirmation from

1660
00:57:00,150 --> 00:56:58,880
whoever it was that whispered in his ear

1661
00:57:02,390 --> 00:57:00,160
that said

1662
00:57:04,710 --> 00:57:02,400
yeah the names are right and the guy

1663
00:57:06,630 --> 00:57:04,720
says the name should tell you what was

1664
00:57:08,710 --> 00:57:06,640
going on so of course the way john

1665
00:57:11,510 --> 00:57:08,720
alexander handles it is he says yes it

1666
00:57:14,069 --> 00:57:11,520
was amj12 the names on the document were

1667
00:57:15,670 --> 00:57:14,079
correct but it was to cover up another

1668
00:57:17,750 --> 00:57:15,680
program it was a

1669
00:57:20,950 --> 00:57:17,760
a continuity of government program it

1670
00:57:23,270 --> 00:57:20,960
was a program that a very high security

1671
00:57:25,270 --> 00:57:23,280
uh top secret program that the

1672
00:57:28,309 --> 00:57:25,280
government had to stop

1673
00:57:30,870 --> 00:57:28,319
uh nuclear decapitation from the soviets

1674
00:57:32,630 --> 00:57:30,880
so it was this how would we uh save the

1675
00:57:34,789 --> 00:57:32,640
government if we were attacked nuclearly

1676
00:57:36,870 --> 00:57:34,799
so that was his interpretation of what

1677
00:57:38,789 --> 00:57:36,880
this mj12 committee was but he's

1678
00:57:41,030 --> 00:57:38,799
actually now admitting that yes someone

1679
00:57:43,829 --> 00:57:41,040
whispered in his ear that mj-12 did

1680
00:57:45,670 --> 00:57:43,839
exist and this is a guy who is pretty

1681
00:57:46,789 --> 00:57:45,680
skeptical on everything else in the

1682
00:57:48,470 --> 00:57:46,799
field there's no cover-up there's

1683
00:57:50,710 --> 00:57:48,480
nothing but we'll actually admit yes

1684
00:57:52,710 --> 00:57:50,720
there was an mj-12 wow that's

1685
00:57:54,549 --> 00:57:52,720
interesting well thanks so much i really

1686
00:57:56,549 --> 00:57:54,559
enjoyed our talk today we'll have you

1687
00:57:59,190 --> 00:57:56,559
back to talk about the president's

1688
00:58:01,349 --> 00:57:59,200
involvement in the ufos over the years

1689
00:58:06,560 --> 00:58:01,359
okay martin thank you thanks a lot take